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Cassim's June 26 testimony

MR CASSIM: I actually got scared, that I used my pre-paid card. I mean, I could have used my shop phone to phone Sanjay, I could have used my - I mean, I used to use my shop phone, I used to use my house phone.

MS BATOHI: But what did you get scared about?

MR CASSIM: What has transpired, what Sanjay was doing.

MS BATOHI: What did you get scared about? You didn't - you weren't involved in this thing, why did you get scared, and why did you destroy that card?

MR CASSIM: Because I introduced him to Mr Cronjé.

MS BATOHI: You've introduced lots of people to Mr Cronjé, Mr Cassim. Why did you get scared? It was an innocuous act on your part, on your evidence. You introduced him to Mr Cronjé, as you've done with a number of other people, and then you get scared and you destroy the card. Can you explain that?

MR CASSIM: I can't explain it to you, Adv Batohi, really.

MS BATOHI: And you other number, ending with 5950, I'm not going to give the full number. You didn't destroy that card.

MR CASSIM: No.

MS BATOHI: Why not? Is that because there were no - is that because there were no calls to Mr Chawla on that phone?

MR CASSIM: I can't phone overseas, but I can have incoming calls on that.

MS BATOHI: Yes, so is that because there were no calls that could be picked up on that phone to Mr Chawla, that you did not destroy that, because you knew there will be no evidence of you contacting him on that phone.

MR CASSIM: I've had that mobile number now for the last couple of good years.

MS BATOHI: Yes, but you're not - why did you - why haven't you destroyed that number - that card as well?

MR CASSIM: No, because I'm sure you could have picked it up, if any incoming calls were coming on that phone as well.

MS BATOHI: You earlier said that one of the reasons why you destroyed the pay-as-you-go card was because you were afraid that Sanjay was going to call you on that number. Is that correct?

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MS BATOHI: But he had your 5950 number, which he could easily contact you on, and on which in fact he made 29 calls to you. So he could have contacted you on the other number. That doesn't give an explanation for destroying the Pay-as-you-go-card.

MR CASSIM: I think probably Sanjay would never wanted to call me on my other number.

MS BATOHI: I think the simple answer to that, Mr Cassim, is you were trying to destroy evidence. Your comment on that?

MR CASSIM: I don't agree on that, Adv Batohi.

MS BATOHI: So I'm going to just go through very quickly, just to give the Commission some sort of idea of the sort of contact that you had with Mr Cronjé - I'm not sure if you've a copy of this - you've got a copy of the diagram? The circular one with all the players names, yes. Now if you looked at the attached detailed billing, the record of the telephone calls. Thank you, Mr Commissioner. This list contains telephone calls between you and Mr Cronjé from the 1st of November 1999 until 6th of April 2000, and the easy way that one can figure out who's calling who, the number ends with a one on the end it's you making the call. The minute there's a zero, then that's a call coming in from Mr Cronjé. So you see most of the calls seem to be calls that you were making to Mr Cronjé. Is that correct?

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MS BATOHI: And from the 1st of November there seems to be one call, two calls, three calls a day perhaps, running up to about the 21st of January. And that's just midway down the page, from the 22nd - see, there's four calls, fairly short in duration, from about one, that's 13h03 to about 20 to 11 that night. And it would appear there that you were trying to contact Mr Cronjé without success, is that correct? Do you see the calls on the 22nd of January? There are four calls from you to him. The five seconds, three seconds, nine seconds, three seconds, indicates that they were very short calls. Is that correct?

MR CASSIM: Correct.

MS BATOHI: Do you follow? But right up until 20 to 11 that night, on the 22nd of January, you were trying to contact Mr Cronjé, and this would have been just a week or 10 days before Mr Chawla was due to arrive. Why were you - can you recall, why were you trying to contact Mr Cronjé on the 22nd, to the extent that you even made a call at - almost 25 to 11 that night?

MR CASSIM: If you can assist me, Advocate. Were they playing a One-day international match anywhere?

MS BATOHI: I'll tell you in a minute. Yes, the One-day international on the 23rd of January was between South Africa and England at Bloemfontein. That was on the following day.

MR CASSIM: Were there any matches thereafter? Sorry.

MS BATOHI: Well, just before I answer that, why does the fact that there was a One-day international following on that, why was that important to you? Before you ...(intervention)

MR CASSIM: Probably I needed tickets from Mr Cronjé. I would always phone him, I would phone Goolam, I would phone Herschelle, I don't phone Kallis, I would phone Lance Klusener.

MS BATOHI: Alright, fine. But then I told you that there was a One-day international on the day following, and then you said, 'Any other matches after that?' So if you had phoned because you wanted tickets, then you would just said, 'Yes, I probably wanted tickets.' Why do you want to know about the next match now.

MR CASSIM: I thought probably they were playing in Cape Town. If they were playing in Cape Town I would get tickets for my nieces, if they were playing in Durban, for my brother.

MS BATOHI: So are you saying then that because it was in Bloemfontein, chances are that you didn't want tickets?

MR CASSIM: Correct.

MS BATOHI: So why were you desperate to contact him up until 20 to 11 that night, the 22nd of January?

MR CASSIM: Being my nature, if you see I mmake phone calls to the other players as well, I make calls late at night with them as well.

MS BATOHI: Please, you're phoning the national Captain. He might be sleeping 'cause he's got a match the next morning. You phoned him at 20 to 11 just to say, 'Hi'. Is that what you're saying?

MR CASSIM: ...at any time really, because they'll entertain my calls, Adv Batohi.

MS BATOHI: Are you seriously saying that you would phone somebody at 20 to 11, even though he might be sleeping, he's the national captain and he's got a match the next day just to say, 'Hello', to him?

MR CASSIM: Yes.

MS BATOHI: He was prepared to entertain your calls at that time of the night? You must have been a very, very close friend of his.

MR CASSIM: Yes. Not only him, with all the other players as well.

MS BATOHI: I'm not interested in the other players for a moment. You must have been a very, very close friend of Mr Cronjé's for him to be prepared to entertain a call from you just saying 'Hi' at 20 to 11 at night.

MR CASSIM: The relationship we developed, I guess we were very close friends.

MS BATOHI: Do you know then why he refers to you as a hanger-on in his statement?

MR CASSIM: I'm always hanging around at the grounds, by the players, at the dressing rooms. I'll always - if it's in Jo'burg at the Sandton Sun, I'll go at any time and they will all talk to me.

MS BATOHI: You see, Mr Cassim, your counsel Mr Blumberg, when he cross-examined Mr Cronjé in fact took up that very point, because he said that that is, to use his word, I think an 'insulting' term he put to Mr Cronjé, because you were not a hanger-on. So if you felt that Mr Cronjé was such a close friend that you could call him at 11 or 20 to 11, why would he refer to you as a hanger-on? You yourself - well, in cross-examination your counsel made it quite clear that they didn't think that that comment - that term was particularly complimentary. Why would he refer to you as a hanger-on if, on your evidence, he was such a good friend that he was prepared to entertain calls to say 'Hi' at 20 to 11 at night?

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