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Cassim's June 26 testimony

MS BATOHI: It's not a little bit, Mr Cassim. You yourself say it's quite a lot that you heard. And just to complete that, what did they say about who would be bowling? That's also in your statement. You say: "They spoke about who would be bowling." Now that means you heard them say something about who would be bowling. What was discussed about who would be bowling?

MR CASSIM: Like the batting and the bowling, I can't recall what they were discussing really, Adv Batohi.

MS BATOHI: You see, Mr Cassim, this is what I find very, very strange about this entire conversation that took place between Cronjé and Cassim - I beg your pardon, Cronjé and Sanjay. You hear about pitch forecasting, you hear about team selection, you hear about winning the toss, you hear about team selection, you hear about batting, you hear about - well, I haven't asked you this one. What did you hear about the number of runs in one-day international matches? You said you also heard them discussing that. What was discussed about that? Was that in relation to the match on the following day?

MR CASSIM: I think they were discussing how many - what - how many runs a One-day match can - you can get in a One-day match.

MS BATOHI: Come, Mr Cassim. You can't just in the air talk about how many runs you could get in a one-day match, 'cause -following cricket from 1992 as you have, travelling around the world to Sharjah and India to watch matches, you know that the total that a team can get would depend on various things. So they can't just be talking in the air about how many runs a team can get in One-day internationals. What were they talking about, about the number of runs?

MR CASSIM: I think between Hansie and Sanjay they knew what they were talking. I wouldn't get myself involved in things like that because it never interested me one bit, Ma'am.

MS BATOHI: I'm not going to belabour this as well - again - any further, but just - you in your statement say that they were further discussing the number of runs in one-day international cricket matches. For the last time, what were they saying about the number of number of runs?

MR CASSIM: They were saying that how many runs could you get probably in an international match? Assuming it was King's Park, they would say - I think if you bat first probably you'll get 250 runs, and second probably - if you were batting second the ball will swing and you will get less.

MS BATOHI: Now what impression did you get - I think my learned friend has asked you this already, but what impression did you get about what was going on there, especially the envelope with money was handed over?

MR CASSIM: The impression I got was that Sanjay wanted information from Hansie?

MS BATOHI: Only information?

MR CASSIM: I think only information because when he gave him that money, he wanted some - probably a lot of information from Hansie regarding matches, team selection, pitch reports.

MS BATOHI: You see, in the one breath Mr Cassim, you say that you really didn't know what was going on there, you weren't listening. In the other breath you're prepared to say that it was only for information you think that this money was being handed over. How do you know that, when on your own evidence, you weren't even listening to this conversation?

MR CASSIM: That's the only thing I could say, is that when he gave him the money it could just be for information.

MS BATOHI: Sorry, Mr Commissioner, I'm just looking through my notes of the earlier testimony, but I'll get back to that at a later stage. Just one other thing. What match were you watching on TV? That was in Sanjay's room at the Beverley Hills.

MR CASSIM: I can't - I think - I think it was a provincial match. It was a Standard Bank day/night match.

MS BATOHI: Was that a live match?

MR CASSIM: It was a live match.

MS BATOHI: You see, Mr Cassim, you've tried to give the impression that you really didn't know what was going on between Mr Cronjé and Mr Sanjay. Is that correct?

MR CASSIM: Could you rephrase that question, please, I ...(intervention)

MS BATOHI: You've tried to give the impression to this court that you really didn't know what was going on between Mr Chawla and Mr Cronjé.

MR CASSIM: That's correct, I think.

MS BATOHI: That's correct, I think?

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MS BATOHI: You see, my learned friend Mr Manca has taken you through Mr Cronjé's statement, and I'm just going to read out a couple of portions of his statement and I'd like you to comment on it, on why he would include you in this if you really had nothing to do with this plan, or arrangement that he had between - or arrangement that there was between him and Mr Chawla.

MR CASSIM: Sorry, can I get Mr Cronjé's statement, please?

COMMISSIONER: You've got a copy, Mr Witz?

MR WITZ: No, I've given it back to you, Mr Commissioner, the original. I haven't got a copy. The one that we were given isn't the one that you have, so I could just borrow your copy or the original again, please.

COMMISSIONER: Has somebody else got a copy of Mr Cronjé's statement for Mr Witz?

MR WITZ: Thank you. I do have one now. Thank you, Mr Commissioner. before, that he needed to win some money and that I would have to deliver something."

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