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Cassim's June 26 testimony

MR CASSIM: Not at that point of time that I told you earlier.

MR MANCA: Do you really expect me to believe that?

MR CASSIM: I expect you to believe that.

MR MANCA: But at the time of course you didn't think there was anything wrong so at the time you would have had as much contact as possible with Mr Sanjay and Mr Cronjé in relation to what had transpired in the hotel room.

MR CASSIM: No I did not.

MR MANCA: Listen to the question. I'm not asking you whether you had contact with them, I'm asking you whether or not you would agree with me that because at the time you didn't think there was anything wrong, you just told me that, if you didn't think there was anything wrong, you would have no reason to, in the first instance, not cooperate with Sanjay in any way whatsoever that he might have required you to do, is that correct?

MR CASSIM: Can you rephrase that question please?

MR MANCA: You say that in the hotel room you heard talk of exchanges in relation to pitch conditions, exchange of teams, forecasting was mentioned, you said that.

MR CASSIM: That's right.

MR MANCA: And you say you saw money change hands, is that correct?

MR CASSIM: Yes.

MR MANCA: But you also say at the time you didn't think there was anything wrong in what had transpired.

MR CASSIM: Anything wrong in what had transpired regarding what?

MR MANCA: What had transpired between yourself and between Mr Sanjay and Mr Cronjé in that hotel room, you didn't see anything wrong in that, you told me no alarm bells went off.

MR CASSIM: When Mr Cronjé took the money I was shocked.

MR MANCA: That doesn't ring true with your own evidence that you gave me a moment ago that no alarm bells went off.

MR CASSIM: In the first instance no alarm bells went off.

MR MANCA: If Mr Sanjay, let me put it to you differently, if Mr Sanjay had contacted you after that meeting and had telephone calls with you and had asked you to get in contact with Mr Cronjé in relation to information that Mr Sanjay wanted on cricket matches, you would have assisted Mr Sanjay because you didn't think there was anything wrong at that time.

MR CASSIM: No I will never have assisted Mr Sanjay because what Mr Sanjay and Hansie did up until today I still don't know.

MR MANCA: But we know that you did assist Mr Sanjay.

MR CASSIM: Introduced him to Mr Cronjé yes, not anything further.

MR MANCA: Nothing further?

MR CASSIM: Nothing.

MR MANCA: What about the twenty to thirty telephone calls that you received from Mr Sanjay asking you to get hold of Mr Cronjé whilst he was in India?

MR CASSIM: That he only wanted to speak to him.

MR MANCA: No Mr Cassim, I'm not going to play games and I'm going to carry on endlessly, - you understand English.

MR CASSIM: Yes.

MR MANCA: That's clearly assisting Mr Sanjay is it not?

MR WITZ: Sorry Mr Commissioner if I can just interrupt. Those phone calls were made in South Africa not in India if you look at the phone list, if my learned friend can just look at his phone lists.

COMMISSIONER: I understand that they were made by Sanjay in India to Cassim in Cape Town asking Cassim in Cape Town to contact Cronjé in India, not only in India but at the same hotel, to tell him please to go and see or telefax Sanjay. So they emanated from India.

MR WITZ: No Mr Commissioner they emanate from London, it's a London telephone number that's phoning a mobile phone number in South Africa of Mr Cassim. Those are the 29 calls referred to. If my learned friend takes the trouble to look at the dates he will see that those dates are when the One-day international with South Africa were on, not the India series.

MS BATOHI: Perhaps I can just clarify that Mr Commissioner. It is so that the calls that we have on the detailed billing are calls that were made in South Africa, but the testimony of the witness is that he had received twenty to thirty calls at a later stage when Sanjay was back in London.

COMMISSIONER: Sanjay and Cronjé were not staying at the same hotel at the time, that's as I understand it from Mr Witz.

MS BATOHI: Perhaps we'll have to just check the record to see whether the witness will perhaps remember, he said the calls were made either from India or London but those calls are not reflected on the detailed billing, these are calls only in South Africa.

COMMISSIONER: I don't understand Mr Cassim that you disputed Mr Manca's proposition when he put it to you that the calls were made by Sanjay from the hotel in India where both he and Cronjé were staying at the time and that they were routed so to speak via you in Johannesburg. Is that

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