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Cassim's June 26 testimony

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MR MANCA: You made an assumption. At that stage did the alarm bells start ringing?

MR CASSIM: Well at that stage still I just thought "well..." I was still shocked when Hansie took the money and I said, "well this Sanjay must have given to Hansie for future references".

COMMISSIONER: What worries me a little bit Mr Cassim is the fact that Sanjay and Cronjé who were busy with this particular deal even allowed you to remain in the room. It suggests to me that they appreciated that you must have known what was going on. So there was no need for secrecy.

MR CASSIM: I suppose that's correct, yes.

MR MANCA: Just to get back to my question, did or did not the alarm bells start ringing?

MR CASSIM: Well probably, I mean when I saw what had happened maybe the bells still didn't ring to me.

MR MANCA: Yes because I mean in fact if one looks at your statement and your evidence it's quite probable that on your version no alarm bells started ringing because you continued to have contact with Sanjay. I mean the next bit of your statement is you told Sanjay that you'll not be able to stay over in Durban for the One-day international as you had other commitments and you go back to Johannesburg. I mean you didn't suggest to him that it was shocking what you had seen happen in that hotel room, you were quite comfortable with it. You went back to Johannesburg.

MR CASSIM: Yes I went back to Johannesburg and I carried on with my business.

COMMISSIONER: You also carried on with your contacts with Sanjay.

MR CASSIM: Sanjay used to call me most of the times.

MR MANCA: Yes and at paragraph 8.22 of your statement on page 15, you say that - "After the cricket series was over Sanjay left for London and we kept up telephonic contact on occasions". That's yourself and Sanjay. "And Sanjay thanked me for introducing him to Mr Cronjé". You didn't take him to task for this money that he'd handed over or anything that had transpired in that hotel room on that day. You never expressed shock, horror or surprise, did you?

MR CASSIM: No.

MR MANCA: And then you go on to state at paragraph 8.24 of your statement, now this is - let me ask you, before we go on to 8.24, Mr Sanjay arrived and went to Durban and that was on the - it seems to be on the eve of the One-day international between South Africa and Zimbabwe, we are talking about the 1st of February I think, is that correct?

MR CASSIM: It is.

MR MANCA: Do you perhaps know, the next thing is you say at 8.22 - "After the cricket series was over..." are you referring there to the series between South Africa, Zimbabwe and England in South Africa?

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MR MANCA: So Mr Chawla, Sanjay Chawla, remained in South Africa until the end of that series?

MR CASSIM: .... think so.

MR MANCA: But it's going to be a long time if - you don't think so. Well what's correct 8.22 of your statement or the thoughts that you are having now?

MR CASSIM: Sanjay left three or four days after the One-day matches.

COMMISSIONER: Sorry Mr Manca. How do you know, did you have contact with Sanjay after that particular day while he was still in South Africa?

MR CASSIM: Sanjay stayed over in Durban and he left from Durban to London.

COMMISSIONER: How do you know that, that's my question.

MR CASSIM: I think if I can recall clearly, before he left he called.

COMMISSIONER: Carry on Mr Manca.

MR MANCA: Alright so when you said at 8.22 of your statement, "...after the cricket series was over..." do I understand you to say that once again that that was an assumption that you made on your part.

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MR MANCA: Alright so at this stage the contact that you had with Mr Sanjay is he's phoned you, he come to South Africa, you've joined him in Durban, you meet with him in the hotel room with Mr Cronjé and he's phoned you a few times after that, is that right?

MR CASSIM: That's right.

MR MANCA: Then you say that you received a phone call from Mr Sanjay when South Africa were playing in India.

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MR MANCA: You say that you recall that he told you he was staying at the same hotel as the South African players when the first test match against India was being played at Cochin. That's what you say in your statement.

COMMISSIONER: It's been corrected Mr Manca. My copy here is to read "when the first One-day international against India was played at Cochin".

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