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Cassim's June 26 testimony

MR CASSIM: Mr Commissioner when I spoke to Hansie at that time I was just actually joking with him and said if I knew you are going to declare I would have made money.

COMMISSIONER: How does that thought even cross the mind of a man, jokingly or otherwise, who hasn't at that stage had a bet for what 25 years, and then only once?

MR CASSIM: I cannot really tell you how that crossed my mind Mr Commissioner.

COMMISSIONER: Carry on Mr Manca.

MR MANCA: Mr Cassim now you have told the Commission that you were contacted by Mr Chawla and we know that Mr Chawla visited South Africa and he travelled to Durban, you subsequently travelled to Durban and you, Mr Cronjé and Mr Chawla had a meeting in a hotel room in Durban. That's all common cause, there is no dispute in regard to that.

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MR MANCA: Now you also testified that at your very first meeting with Mr Chawla he told you that he was a man who liked betting on cricket and your counsel asked you did any alarm bells start ringing at that stage and you said "no".

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MR MANCA: Did Mr Chawla tell you why he wanted you to come to Durban?

MR CASSIM: No.

MR MANCA: Why did you travel to Durban then for just a day?

MR CASSIM: Well that's the day Mr Chawla told me he wanted to meet the South African players.

MR MANCA: So why did Mr Chawla want you to come to Durban?

MR CASSIM: To introduce him to Hansie Cronjé in particular.

MR MANCA: Did you discuss payment of the air ticket before you went to Durban?

MR CASSIM: Well he told me to come down. I bought the air ticket with my card and he reimbursed me when I was leaving Durban.

MR MANCA: So are you really saying that the only time you discussed the payment for the ticket was when you went back to Johannesburg?

MR CASSIM: Apparently the day he left for Durban he wanted me to go with him, he was going to pay for the ticket, due to family commitments, I've got two boys at home, I could not go with him.

MR MANCA: He could still have paid for the ticket if you were coming the next day.

MR CASSIM: He could have paid it but I paid it with my credit card and he reimbursed me.

MR MANCA: My question is, when was it discussed, the payment of the ticket?

MR CASSIM: The Sunday he was at my shop.

MR MANCA: So it was discussed before you left?

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MR MANCA: Alright. Now you get to Durban and you speak to Mr Cronjé and you in fact arrange for Mr Cronjé to meet Mr Chawla in the room.

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MR MANCA: And if I understand your evidence you are not paying particular, too much interest in regard to the conversation, you are watching a cricket game that's on the TV, is that correct?

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MR MANCA: But you do hear snippets of the conversation?

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MR MANCA: And the snippets of the conversation you hear relate to, as you term it, forecasting it, is that correct?

MR CASSIM: That's correct.

MR MANCA: Now what is that forecasting? Who was going to be forecasting and what was going to be forecast?

MR CASSIM: If my memory serves me correct Mr Cronjé and Sanjay were talking regarding - Sanjay was asking Hansie regarding the pitches, the scores that they would, the score and the team selection.

MR MANCA: So there was no talk of forecasting?

MR CASSIM: I don't know at that point of time were they talking of forecasting.

MR MANCA: You don't know or they weren't talking about forecasting?

MR CASSIM: I don't recall.

MR MANCA: You don't recall that they were talking about forecasting.

MR MANCA: I don't recall.

MR MANCA: So when you said in your statement at 8.18, on page 14 that they were talking about match forecasting that was an incorrect statement in that statement?

MR CASSIM: Which paragraph?

MR MANCA: 8.18 on page 14.

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