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Aronstam's June 23 testimony

MR ARONSTAM: "That was the last time I had any physical contact with MR CRONJE. I thereafter had further telephonic contact with MR CRONJE, and this included prior to the test series in India. We discussed various tactics in cricket and he mentioned the uphill battle that faced South Africa as nobody had beaten India on home soil for approximately the last 20 years, if my memory is correct. We also discussed why South Africa did not win the series in 1996. We discussed in detail why they didn't win, because in 1996 the South African team, the bowling attack was much weaker than in the year 2000, and I was adamant to him that South Africa will win the test series." If you compare the team of 2000 to 1996, much, much stronger I - in 1996 certain players even went home injured. And no disrespect to Clive Eksteen(?), he's not as good as Paul Adams when it comes to taking wickets. And I was so confident, I said to him "Hansie, I'm telling you, you guys are gonna win the test series." And we discussed every single night, at the end of the test match night we would discuss the day's play and I'd keep reassuring him that they're gonna win the test series and our relationship became really a very good relationship."

MR BLUMBERG: Yes, carry on.

MR ARONSTAM: "We thereafter discussed that one of the most important factors was that everybody believed that the wickets in India played to spin bowling, whereas in fact, the pace attack that South Africa had would in fact be one of the key factors in order to ensure success. I proved to him it's a fallacy that spin bowling only gets wickets and that you can win with seam bowling. I spoke to MR CRONJE in India. This was normally not very late at night, as he liked to have an early night while on tour. Or he might have been hiding. Maybe he didn't want to take calls after a certain time, because every time I used to try and call him after half past ten, the answer was "MR CRONJE is not taking anymore calls." I tried to call him in the evening and the answer was "MR CRONJE's gone to sleep." I recall that in regard to one of the games in India, we discussed the pitch report when I asked him to verify by physical examination, which he thereafter did. I also wish to state further that when I left the message for MR CRONJE in India, with the operator at the hotel, I would never use my own name, I used to use the name of Anthony."

MR BLUMBERG: Mr Aronstam, why did you choose to use a false name when leaving a message for MR CRONJE?

MR ARONSTAM: The reason I used another name is because - because MR CRONJE was supplying me with information, I thought it had nothing to do with anybody else regarding that I got the information and if it got out to other bookmakers that I was getting information, well then I definitely wouldn't be able to get a bet, and the information to me was most important. When you want to do something it's better to have the edge. And in view of that, in case somebody else had saw the message that Marlon is in contact, that would have spread around very quickly that Marlon is in contact with the South African captain. So I said to him "If you ever get a message from me, I'm going to leave it as Anthony and you'll know that I called."

MR BLUMBERG: Please carry on.

MR ARONSTAM: "After South Africa won the series in India, I asked a friend of mine in India to send a basket of fruit to Hansie Cronjé and congratulated him for winning the series. In one of my telephonic conversations with MR CRONJE, I told him that at the time that they were playing in India, I myself was going to India on business as I was looking for software for gambling purposes, and he said to me that I should consider coming to Cochin for the one day. He intimated to me that South Africa might lose the first one-day in Cochin, but they would still win the series in any event, as this was only the first one-day match. Prior to the match in Cochin, about a week before he told me that if I'm only coming to India for cricket, that definitely he would not lose the game in Cochin. He said that's definitely not on the cards. And I told him I'm not only coming to India for cricket, I'm coming on other business and I'm still coming to Bombay to look at software. I phoned him after the Cochin game however, he was very indifferent to me on the phone and I did not speak to him again. The next telephonic contact that I had with Mr Hansie Cronjé, was a few days after this matter became public. When we spoke and I gave him my new telephone number, being - I'm not going to repeat it because when I last repeated the number, since then everyone's being phoning that number on air. So I don't want to repeat it in front of the public. He also gave me a new mobile number ..." ...(intervention)

COMMISSIONER: We'll keep it secret, Mr Aronstam, all 55 of us.

MR ARONSTAM: Well it's on air and my wife's been receiving a lot of phone calls since it went over the air. "He also gave a new mobile number to call him, which I think is: 082-something-something-something. We thereafter kept in telephonic contact and we used the names Boet and Boetie with each other."

MR BLUMBERG: Why did you use that Boet and Boetie?

MR ARONSTAM: Well it came to a stage where once all this knowledge became common practice etcetera, Hansie was very nervous of what had transpired and we didn't know what could happen, people could be tapping phones etcetera, etcetera, and he asked me to - we'd get to a situation - I was going to go Bloemfontein to meet MR CRONJE, Hansie, and discuss this matter in-depth and that we'd have our ducks together to answer to any questions and we then came that we'll use the codename Boet and Boetie on each other's cellphone in case they might be being tapped.

MR BLUMBERG: Did you every go to meet MR CRONJE anywhere?

MR ARONSTAM: No, I never went. We just spoke about - I was going to meet him in Bloemfontein, something happened that I didn't go. Then I was going to meet him in Maritzburg. I got a phone call from a guy saying "I have a message from Boet for you, the meeting in Maritzburg is off." We were not gonna meet and we never met.

MR BLUMBERG: Do you have any idea what he was doing in Maritzburg?

MR ARONSTAM: He was writing exams. Hansie's been studying and he told me he has to go down to write some exams, so I went down - I didn't go down, he told me, because I was going to make arrangements to go down and meet and the message was "He will contact you shortly."

MR BLUMBERG: Please continue.

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