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Aronstam's June 23 testimony

MR. ARONSTAM (contd.): I said, 'If only I could get hold of Hansie Cronjé, there's a possibility that he's prepared to make a result.' And, I'm not a shy person in life, I decided, 'Let's try and get hold of the Captain himself, and tell him that he had' - that - the truth is that the United Cricket Board, I think they should have thought about the suggestion, that they'd had a meeting from, I gather, the day before and they should have come up with the idea that this is a good way to solve the game of cricket. Cricket in general, the test matches in South Africa produces very poor crowds, as opposed to other countries. And test cricket in South Africa, in my opinion, is a dying sport anyway, which is sad. So I went ahead and I obtained Hansie's number, and pursued the matter to contact Hansie. I phoned Hansie on his cellphone, I told him that my name was Marlon Aronstam and that I had a good suggestion for him to consider. This phone call never lasted more than, I'd say, two-and-half to three minutes. I asked him why it was not possible to declare as South Africa were batting, the English could then declare, and he could consider setting them a target in approximately 250 runs and how ever many overs he thought would be necessary and at what rate. He liked my idea, asked me for my cell number and said he would call me back in the morning. I gave him my mobile number, being 083 263 3481. During the course of the conversation, I said to him that if he can arrange for the test match to be concluded on the basis of my suggestion, I would consider arranging the amount of approximately R200 000 for a charity of his choice. My idea was to raise money for the United Cricket Board Development Fund. Approximately 10 to 15 minutes after I had spoken to Mr Hansie Cronjé, I phoned him back and I asked him whether it would not be possible for me to see him that evening. He told me that he was staying at the Sandton Sun, and he gave me his room number. We made an arrangement to meet at approximately 9:30-pm. He called me back at a later stage and asked me whether or not we could make it approximately 10-pm, as he had other arrangements. I went to the Sandton Sun hotel, went up to MR CRONJE's room, introduced myself and he invited me in. We thereafter discussed my idea for the declaration with the English test side, and after debating it, we also started discussing various aspects of cricket in general, including some of the test matches that had played. I'm very sure that in MR CRONJE's testimony when he brought up the issue of New Zealand at Eden Garden, I think I - that came up because of me. I brought that up to him, I said to him that night, 'Hansie, this was you. You were such a positive Captain in that series. You didn't have to go around making a declaration against New Zealand. You set the most attacking field possible, and that's the only reason how you beat New Zealand.' And he was amazed at how I came up with all this thing, and he probably thought to himself that over the last few years he had been negative, as was pertained in the Press. I ventured my opinion to him that from the cricketing public point of view, as well as my own opinion, it appeared that his recent image as the Captain of the national side was not good. That he was playing negative cricket. His recent own form was not good. The South African run-rate had become very slow and I was of the opinion that in several of the test matches his attitude had been very negative. He listened to what I had to say, and then we discussed the final test against England at Centurion. I said to him that if my suggestion for the declaration was taken up, it would not make any difference as South Africa had already won the series and whether it was a win or lose situation, the whole image as a cricketing Captain would be enhanced." I left out the word 'draw', win, lose or draw. And for that matter you can add in the word 'tie' as well, 'cause that was also really part of the result. We also discussed that it was obviously dependant on a full day of cricket being played, especially in view of the inclement weather conditions that had been over Gauteng for some time. I further discussed with MR CRONJE that if the declarations took place, it would be for the very first time in test match history that it had ever been done. I'm not sure whether MR CRONJE was aware that it had never been done before. I myself was also aware that the ICC had recently amended their rules to allow for declaration in test matches without either side facing a ball. In the past, from what I've been told, you had to go out and bat, at least face a ball, that would incur wasting 10 minutes per innings. So the ICC actually had changed the rules to allow for this type of declaration, and it seemed strange that it had never happened in 100 years of cricket. I asked MR CRONJE why he had not discussed the matter with Nasser Hussein, the English Captain, and he said he was too late. I never asked him to phone, to call Nasser Hussein to the room. I asked him to make a phone call to him to ask him would he be interested, and he said he would talk about it in the morning. I replied that he should put the idea about the declaration to Nasser Hussein, and if Nasser Hussein declined to accept the declaration then it would be seen as him being the very negative person, Captain. Our conversation thereafter turned to various other aspects of cricket in general, and I reminded him about one of the earlier games that I had followed between New Zealand and South Africa a few years before. I pointed out to him that he had set New Zealand a reasonable target, which he had done, and I pointed out to him that his captaincy and attitude at that stage was very positive, and that his field placings were good and that they allowed for runs to be conceded. However, wickets also fell. New Zealand had taken up the challenge which was set to them and were bowled out. I told him that in fact this was one of the most unbelievable games of cricket that he had ever played in. I further said to him that as there was no betting on the game because of the status that had now been reached, I wouldn't be in a position to make any donation to charity." The betting around the world - I had made some phone calls and the betting was suspended. There was no betting. In fact, you'll find out later when you cross-question me, the betting in the U.K. was suspended and never, ever even reopened on the last day. I believe the figure that I had mentioned was approximately R200 000. The matter was never discussed any further. I then got up to leave the room, and as I was leaving MR CRONJE said to me how was it possible for him to make any money out of cricket. I replied saying, 'The ball is in your court.'"

MR BLUMBERG: Mr Aronstam, will you just stop there, please. Did you at this stage make any mention of a gift to MR CRONJE?

MR ARONSTAM: Never.

MR BLUMBERG: Was there any discussion or suggestion from MR CRONJE about One-day internationals?

MR ARONSTAM: MR CRONJE started discussing with me the possibilities of making money in cricket, and started mentioning that the possibility exists in way of throwing a match. And I was shocked. I said in my statement to the Prosecutor, Shamila, I said, 'It's easy for me to come here today and tell people that the South African Captain had known me for less than one hour, and was telling me that he could throw a game of cricket.' I said, 'Who's going to believe me?' I found out today, there's a - on the Internet there's a - they're trying to get percentages of who believes Marlon, who believes Hansie. And the percentages are coming very close. So - ...(intervention)

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