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Aronstam's June 23 testimony

MR MANCA: As it pleases you Mr Commissioner. Mr Aronstam you have told this Commission that you are knowledgeable in cricket, is that correct?

MR ARONSTAM: Correct.

MR MANCA: And in fact I listened with interest today when in fact you were able to tell the Commissioner that you were even aware of changes to the ICC regulations, is that correct?

MR ARONSTAM: Correct.

MR MANCA: Mr Aronstam in January of this year when you approached MR CRONJE at his hotel were you aware that in terms of the ICC's Code of Conduct Commission, which regulations I get from the Code of Conduct Standing Playing Conditions and other regulations published in September 1999, the Code of Conduct Commission is directed to investigate, inter alia the following: "Whether amongst others, any cricket player has received, from another person any money, benefit or other reward, whether financial or otherwise for the provision of any information concerning the weather; the teams; the state of the ground; the status or, or the outcome of any match or the occurrence of any event unless such information has been provided to a newspaper or other form of media in accordance with an obligation in the normal course and disclosed in advance to the cricket authority of the relevant member country". Were you aware of those regulations?

MR ARONSTAM: I wasn't, no. But I will tell you something, I think it's, I think that it's very silly that the only people that should be able to get any information on cricket is the media. Why shouldn't everybody get the information?

MR MANCA: I have now told you about that regulation, do I understand you to say that you disagree with that regulation?

MR ARONSTAM: That's something which is not for me to discuss here, but I did not know at the time about that topic, no.

MR MANCA: Mr Aronstam I have just told you about that regulation and I am going to ask you a simple question. Do you agree with it?

MR ARONSTAM: No.

MR MANCA: And would I be correct to say that as a result of you not agreeing with it you don't care to abide by it.

MR ARONSTAM: I never said that.

MR MANCA: Mr Aronstam I didn't suggest that you said it, I am asking you a question.

MR ARONSTAM: There are certain things which I don't agree with that I have to abide by. Had I known that I probably wouldn't have done what I did. So - there are a lot of things in life that you don't agree with but you have to abide by. If those are the laws well then you have to abide by them.

MR MANCA: Mr Aronstam as at January of this year were you aware that Shane Warne and Mark Waugh, two very prominent Australian cricketers had been fined by the Australian Cricket Board for providing information to bookmakers and punters?

MR ARONSTAM: Yes.

MR MANCA: So whether you knew of the exact terms of the ICC regulations you knew that the conduct that you were engaging upon with MR CRONJE was contrary to what was, could at least, at the very least be regarded as generally accepted behaviour in cricketing circles.

MR ARONSTAM: There are certain things which you are debating at the moment which I am not totally convinced are for this topic of discussion here, but there are certain things - the problem with the ICC at the moment is they are making all bookmakers sound like we are criminals, and we are not. Probably the root of all the problem that's going on at the moment in world cricket, the ICC have known all along that matches are being crooked, and they are the ones who have not come out to sort this out. They should have sorted this out long ago after knowing about what's happened. For example in 1994 Pakistan/South Africa etc, my problem is very small regarding the ICC.

MR MANCA: Mr Aronstam - Mr Commissioner I just want to take instructions.

NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MANCA

COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

MS BATOHI: Before we adjourn Mr Commissioner I wish to ...(intervention)

COMMISSIONER: Well I am hoping that we are not going to adjourn until we finish Mr Aronstam.

MS BATOHI: Yes as it pleases you Mr Commissioner. I wish to place on record that my learned friend Mr Dickerson was incorrect when he said that it wasn't put to MR CRONJE that Mr Aronstam will say that certain players were involved. This appears in page 761, lines 14-20 of the record.

COMMISSIONER: I thought I had heard the phrase earlier. Then it's a question of ...(intervention)

RE-EXAMINATION BY MR BLUMBERG: Thank you Mr Commissioner. Just one or two aspects. The approaches for the meetings between you and Cronjé, first in Bloemfontein and Pietermaritzburg, who were they made by?

MR ARONSTAM: They were made by MR CRONJE.

MR BLUMBERG: Did you at any stage suggest any such meetings?

MR ARONSTAM: He said we should get together to discuss and because of the nature that he was a prominent figure that he couldn't - for example I didn't expect him to fly to Johannesburg or etc. I think he was going through a lot at the time to have to get on to an aeroplane. I said I don't mind, I'll come up to Bloemfontein.

MR BLUMBERG: Did you suggest a meeting with him at any time or did it come from him?

MR ARONSTAM: He said that on the telephone we should discuss everything in detail and I said to him I don't think it's - if you want to discuss discuss it face-to-face, don't discuss it on the telephone.

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