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Aronstam's June 23 testimony

MR. ARONSTAM (contd): In India there is no spread-betting. There's line betting. Line betting is maybe 1% of the outcome to win a match. There is no betting in India on a batsman's market. That's a fallacy. Anybody who's told this Commission you can get a big bet in India on a batsman to be in our out, 20 runs for Gibbs, doesn't exist. That's absolute nonsense. So the only way you can really make money on cricket is to buy and sell the market. So when you're coming in, the probability is when - in this transcript, even though it's not recorded, et cetera - when they say, 'Will Gibbs go out?', the reason they're asking 'Will Gibbs go out?', is 'cause he could possibly back in that instance, as it was discussed, he could back India, knowing that if Gibbs is going to go out, he would be able to buy and sell, very quickly, and make a profit. So just before Gibbs is going to go out, you'd say Gibbs could be on 18, he'd then back India. And as Gibbs wicket falls, the price of South Africa will increase drastically because a wicket has fallen. Should Gibbs have continued batting aggressively, the price of South Africa would have shortened drastically. So there is - so that is where the money is made in cricket. The markets in South Africa are irrelevant. They're not even worth - they're not worth speaking about. You've got four bookmakers here. If the company I was with wouldn't accept a bet, well then, you'll get really Mickey Mouse bets. I shouldn't use the word terminology 'Mickey', very small bets. So ...(intervention)

MR BLUMBERG: Mr Aronstam, just explain the difference between spread betting and line betting.

MR ARONSTAM: In India they have what they call a line bet. A line bet is based on - in a One-day match. Sometimes in the One-day games there's not much action while the first team are batting, so it can get a bit boring for the guys that are following the game. So they will set, after the first five overs of seeing how the wicket is playing, they'll set a line, call it 250. You can bet higher or lower of th figure of 250, and the price changes all the time. It could open up in the beginning, call it 9 to 10 in the pair. For those of you who don't know what 9 to 10 in the pair means, you're placing R10 to win 9, on either side. If you're going to go high and the team starts to go very quickly and scoring well, obviously the price of high will go down, and the price of under will go up. And there is often a big swing in a match, but even in that market it is very small. It is just done basically by people there to keep people interested while the game - when nothing's really happening. So that is the only type of runs market bet that you will get in India. There is no spreads.

MR BLUMBERG: Fine. Now will you please now proceed to read your statement there before you?

MR ARONSTAM: "I the undersigned, Marlon Aronstam, an adult male, aged 35 years, state as follows: For approximately the last 18 years I have been involved in the betting industry, which is mostly related to horse racing, up and until the time sports betting became legal in the Republic of South Africa. I was previously one of the founder members of National Sporting Index, which is a company listed on the venture capital board of the Johannesburg Stock Exchange. I was one of the traders as well as advisors on betting, both in respect of horse racing as well as various other sports. I left the said business at the end of March 2000. At the time of the fifth test between England and South Africa in particular, because of adverse weather conditions, the final test was heading for a draw. Utilising my knowledge of cricket and remembering some of the four day games in South Africa, for example, Northern Transvaal and Natal, as well as certain English county games, I realised that perhaps there was a possibility of the test match still being concluded."

MR BLUMBERG: Could I just interpose there? Now, with that thought in mind, that obviously at that stage you didn't think there would be a possible result in the test match. Is that correct?

MR ARONSTAM: Correct.

MR BLUMBERG: It was impossible to get a result. Now what benefits would the recommencement of the test match and a possible result be to you personally in a financial way?

MR ARONSTAM: Sorry, I didn't hear you properly.

COMMISSIONER: Sorry, Mr Blumberg. You - ja, then it'll come through more clearly. You looked as if you were hearing and listening intelligently. (laughs) Repeat the question, please.

MR BLUMBERG: What I would like you to explain to the Commissioner is what benefit you personally would have financially by getting a result in that particular game.

MR ARONSTAM: I - when I had the idea in mind I thought I could make a lot of money. I thought that if they would be able to go and construct and get the game on the ground, I'd be able to back South Africa, and back England, at high prices, the next day I'd be able to back the draw, and I'd back all three results, and I'd make money.

MR BLUMBERG: Would you please explain how that works?

COMMISSIONER: Slowly, please. (general laughter)

MR ARONSTAM: Well, because of my knowledge in betting, I knew that I'd probably be able to back at approximately - I hadn't even worked it out yet, but I thought I might be able to get 20 to 1 about South Africa, possibly 20 to 1 about England. If the match started the next morning, the draw would still be the favourite, which it was, but I'd be able to back the draw, possibly at say even money, and if you back 20 to 1, and 20 to 1 and even money, you'd probably be looking for about 40% profit in return, probably even 45% profit in return of your investments in the way you structured your book.

MR BLUMBERG: Right, then you had another motive as well for getting this game started. What was that?

MR ARONSTAM: I had met ...(intervention)

MR BLUMBERG: Proceed with your statement.

MR ARONSTAM: I had met certain members of the Balmy- Army, which is, for people who don't know, is a travelling group of English supporters, at a bar in Johannesburg. And some of them that came out here had been out here before, and the last time they'd been to Pretoria and there was no cricket. And we were talking and they were angry. They said, 'Geez, every time I come to South Africa, I come to watch cricket and it's washed out.' And I was saying, I said, 'Geez, it's not all over. There's still a chance of getting a result. There's still a chance of having a game.' And I said, 'I remember a game between Northern Transvaal and Natal, I was staying in a hotel in Durban', and I remember in the lift the night before saying to one of the players, 'You just going through the motions again.' The guy said, 'No. We're going to get a result. Tomorrow they're going to declare, the other team's going to declare and we need a result, either way. A draw doesn't help either team.' And that was in back of my mind.

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