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Aronstam's June 23 testimony

MR DICKERSON: Lastly I want to clarify this because you have made statements here, seemingly on the basis of information which does not fall within your personal knowledge, and they, by design perhaps or otherwise, have been calculated to reflect upon a very senior and respected practitioner, so I would like to get one thing very clear with you Mr Aronstam. You have never, certainly before your arrival here in Cape Town, met with Mr Sackstein?

MR ARONSTAM: Never, ever.

MR DICKERSON: You have never had any discussion with Mr Sackstein?

MR ARONSTAM: Never ever.

MR DICKERSON: You have not been present when Mr Sackstein has any discussions with your attorneys or legal representatives or with anybody else.

MR ARONSTAM: Never, ever.

MR DICKERSON: And the best you can do in relation to anything said or done by Mr Sackstein is to recite a secondhand account which you have received from another source who may or may not be regarded by you as reliable.

MR ARONSTAM: I think he would be regarded by this whole court as reliable.

MR DICKERSON: But you, Mr Aronstam, have no basis of your own knowledge for making any statements relating to Mr Sackstein or his conduct, do you?

MR ARONSTAM: I can't say I can relate to it in detail, but I will take my word from my learned friend, Mr John Cameron, that what he told me was as good as gold.

MR DICKERSON: Mr Aronstam, I don't know whether you don't understand me or whether you choose not to understand me, so again let me make myself very clear, because statements you make and statements with important repercussions can be brought home. You of your own knowledge can pass no comment and give no evidence about what was or was not done by Mr Sackstein in any sphere.

MR ARONSTAM: I can't give any evidence or proof that I do know what was discussed between Mr Sackstein and Mr Cameron ...(intervention)

MR DICKERSON: Thank you Mr Aronstam.

MR ARONSTAM: I can only tell you what I know from Mr Cameron.

COMMISSIONER: Let him finish answering the question Mr Dickerson, carry on.

MR ARONSTAM: I can only tell you what Mr Cameron has told me.

MR DICKERSON: In other words, Mr Aronstam, as I have been putting it to you repeatedly, you cannot of your own knowledge, on the basis of your own observations, say anything in that regard.

MR ARONSTAM: Correct.

MR DICKERSON: Thank you Mr Aronstam. Mr Commissioner there are aspects raised in the evidence today which have been raised for the first time. We reserve the right to apply for the recall of Mr Aronstam in due course. But for the moment that is all we have.

NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DICKERSON

COMMISSIONER: Thank you Mr Dickerson. Who will be next, Mr Fitzgerald.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR FITZGERALD: Mr Aronstam just one question. You mentioned during your discussion with Mr at the Sandton Sun, he had indicated to you that he had certain players in his pocket. As a fact you don't know whether that was so or not, do you?

MR ARONSTAM: I don't know. I have never ever spoken to another cricketer in the international area in my life. The first person I ever spoke to was Hansie Cronjé.

NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR FITZGERALD

COMMISSIONER: Mr Manca.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MANCA: Mr Aronstam you mentioned in your evidence that you were told by Mr R that Dr Bacher had allowed him, that is Mr R, to inspect the pitch at Newlands. You're only knowledge in that regard is what Mr R told you?

MR ARONSTAM: Correct.

MR MANCA: Just for the record I have managed to take instructions from Dr Bacher and Dr Bacher will deny that he ever allowed a Mr R or for that matter any other person to inspect the pitch.

MR ARONSTAM: Well all I can say to you is the other day Dr Bacher said that Mr R is a very reliable witness. And I can still remember Mr R telling me that Dr Bacher escorted him on to the pitch the day before and showed him the Newlands pitch.

MR MANCA: I accept that Mr R may have told you that Mr Aronstam, but we have established that your only knowledge comes from Mr R and I have just told you what Dr Bacher's response is.

MR ARONSTAM: Correct, 100%.

MR MANCA: Now Mr Aronstam I am a little intrigued. Could you tell me what your current profession is, or your current occupation?

MR ARONSTAM: At this stage, sitting here today.

MR MANCA: Today is good for me.

MR ARONSTAM: I work for myself. At the moment I am in the process of starting an internet site related to sports betting.

MR MANCA: How do you earn a living at the moment?

MR ARONSTAM: I have just sold my company.

MR MANCA: What was the name of your company?

MR ARONSTAM: My company was called NSI.

MR MANCA: Sorry is that National Sporting Index Ltd, the company that is listed on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange?

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