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Aronstam's June 23 testimony

MR ARONSTAM: I didn't have to persuade him. He really liked the idea. I didn't have to persuade him anymore. He thought the idea was brilliant.

MR DICKERSON: Well in paragraph 19 you say, in response to his alleged statement that he would speak to Nassar Hussein in the morning: "I replied that he should put the idea about the declaration to Nassar Hussein and if Nassar Hussein declined to accept then he would be seen as a very negative captain".

MR ARONSTAM: Correct.

MR DICKERSON: At that stage you were still attempting to persuade ...(intervention)

MR ARONSTAM: No I didn't have to persuade him. I'd like to know if Nassar was keen or not. It was interesting. I didn't have to persuade him anymore. It didn't need much persuading, you didn't have to persuade him much. He liked the idea. He really thought it was a great idea.

MR DICKERSON: And you then continue with the conversation, paragraph 20 at 21, and in paragraph 22 you say the following: "I further said to him that as there was no betting on the game I wouldn't be in a position to make any donation to charity".

MR ARONSTAM: Correct.

MR DICKERSON: Now had you told him before that that you intended betting on the game?

MR ARONSTAM: When I first phoned him I never ever mentioned the word betting to him. I didn't phone up and say Hansie Cronjé I'd like to have a bet on the game.

MR DICKERSON: So when you first, according to you, made an offer of a donation to charity you did it without any reference to the question of betting by you?

MR ARONSTAM: Correct.

MR DICKERSON: In fact the first suggestion you made, if I understand you correctly to MR CRONJE that you may or may not have been betting on the game, was during your meeting on the evening of the fourth day?

MR ARONSTAM: Correct.

MR DICKERSON: And MR CRONJE's evidence was, and I didn't understand this to be challenged by anybody, that he had sent a message to you the following day, after the English had agreed to declare, and that you had subsequently told him, after the declaration, that it had been too late for you to get any bets on the game. Did you say that to him or not?

MR ARONSTAM: I think we just discussed in general what had happened after he sent me the message. When he sent me the message, the SMS message in the morning I said, I said even now I said there was no betting and I could like reconfirm to him there was no betting.

MR DICKERSON: At the time you were employed by NSI, in what capacity?

MR ARONSTAM: I was in charge of trading, I was in charge of mostly any decision NSI had to make in the trading room.

MR DICKERSON: Were you a director of NSI?

MR ARONSTAM: No.

MR DICKERSON: Did NSI itself have any interest in the outcome of the Centurion test?

MR ARONSTAM: Yes, at the time before the end of the result, on the night before when I spoke to MR CRONJE they were probably going to lose about R34,000 and at the conclusion of the test, after the betting place they lost R13,000. It was one of the most dullest tests prior to the last day that we had ever bet on.

MR DICKERSON: And how would your employers at NSI have viewed the fact that you were approaching a South African player ...(intervention)

MR ARONSTAM: I never ever approached him on behalf of NSI. I approached him from my own personal capacity.

MR DICKERSON: I am not asking you that Mr Aronstam. I am saying to you, how would your employers, NSI, have viewed your approach to a South African player at any stage with an offer of payment of any kind for information or for anything else relating to the game of cricket?

MR ARONSTAM: I was, there are no employers, I was my own boss. I don't have to answer to anybody at NSI, when I worked there.

MR DICKERSON: I will ask it again, in a different form. Would NSI have approved of you approaching any South African cricketer with an offer of payment of any form for information or anything else?

MR ARONSTAM: Sorry just repeat your question again.

MR DICKERSON: Would NSI have approved of you approaching a South African cricketer with an offer of payment for information or anything else related to cricket?

MR ARONSTAM: Probably not.

MR DICKERSON: Mr Aronstam you were - let me put it to you this way, you seem to regard, with some pride, your role in speaking to MR CRONJE at the time of the Centurion test. You seem to regard yourself as a man of some importance within the game for having brought about that declaration.

MR ARONSTAM: Well I don't know if I regard myself as somebody important but it's something exciting.

MR DICKERSON: Do you really think that prior to you speaking to MR CRONJE it had never occurred to him or anybody else involved in that game that one way of reviving the match would be a declaration and a forfeiture of an innings?

MR ARONSTAM: Yes.

MR DICKERSON: Would it surprise you to know that at a function on the night of the third day, one day before you spoke to him and met with him, that very topic had been discussed, inter alia with a prominent attorney in Johannesburg?

MR ARONSTAM: It wouldn't surprise me, but the way he related to me it's as though I was the first person to tell him that.

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