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Aronstam's June 23 testimony

MR DICKERSON: Do you know where they obtained it from?

MR ARONSTAM: No.

MR DICKERSON: After you had first consulted the Commission on the 14th of June, you prepared in consultation with your representatives, a draft statement which was handed to the Commission. That is what I understood your evidence to be.

MR ARONSTAM: Yes.

MR DICKERSON: And that was done over the - or during or shortly after the most recent weekend.

MR ARONSTAM: Ja, it was done over the weekend, quite a rush job, that's why a few things that I've said I'm not exactly -because it was a very rushed statement.

MR DICKERSON: Do you have any difficulty in making that draft statement available to us?

MR ARONSTAM: You have the statement at the moment, don't you?

MR ARONSTAM: I don't have the draft statement. My question to you is, do you have any objection to that draft statement being made available to us?

MR ARONSTAM: No, with the greatest of pleasure.

MR DICKERSON: When MR CRONJE was cross-examined by Mr Blumberg, you had not yet signed the statement which you read out today, which I understand from your representatives was only signed on the night of the 21st of June, is that correct?

MR ARONSTAM: Correct.

MR DICKERSON: So this statement and whatever is contained in it, was finalised and executed after you had heard MR CRONJE's evidence-in-chief and after you had heard what MR CRONJE said in response to the cross-examination by Mr Blumberg.

MR ARONSTAM: No, definitely not, the statement was done on the Sunday morning, it started Saturday morning and Sunday morning it was drawn up. It then had to be typed and everything and changes had to be - certain little things had to be changed, and because - I don't know the reason, but we'd been in Cape Town and I think, they way I'm answering the question is that my counsel's representatives are in Johannesburg to do the typing and all that type of stuff. So the actual statement was drawn up, hand-written, on Saturday and Sunday morning and finalised, I would say Monday night, when Mr Wits arrived here in Cape Town and I think on Tuesday morning probably, it was all typed up and done properly from Johannesburg and a copy - sorry, Mr Wits only arrived on Tuesday night, and Mr Wits had to bring all the stuff. When he arrived on Tuesday night from Johannesburg, he brought the statement with him. But the actual statement was written up between Saturday and Sunday.

MR DICKERSON: Mr Aronstam, my question to you was more focused than that. What I'm trying to establish is this, you have said that your statement was signed on the evening of the 21st of June, that is last Wednesday evening, the day before yesterday.

MR ARONSTAM: I think - I think it was done Wednesday lunchtime.

MR DICKERSON: Well I understood you to say it was on Wednesday evening and I was informed by your legal representatives that ...(intervention)

MR ARONSTAM: I'm not sure, but at some stage while we were here on the Wednesday I signed the statement. I'm not sure.

MR BLUMBERG: With respect, Mr Commissioner, counsel is now venturing into a territory that he accused at a certain stage of privilege, with due respect, and I'd like to place this on record, Your Worship, I've had considerable difficulty that, Mr Commissioner, that the parties representing MR CRONJE seem to feel that we're not treating him equally as others. Your Worship, they actually had a signed copy of the statement before Ms Batohi had a signed copy of the statement and we distributed the statement simultaneously. But irrespective of that, I would submit with respect that the drafts, as they quite correctly pointed out yesterday, are privileged.

COMMISSIONER: What do you say to that Mr Dickerson?

MR DICKERSON: Mr Commissioner what I am trying to establish at the moment ...(intervention)

COMMISSIONER: No, no, no, just a moment, answer my question, what do you say to the submission that that's a privileged document?

MR DICKERSON: Well Mr Commissioner with respect this can't be a privileged document it's been read out and dealt with by the witness in giving evidence.

COMMISSIONER: That's the statement in its final form, not in its draft form.

MR DICKERSON: And as regards the draft, Mr Commissioner, the draft as the witness himself has said was made available to the Commission. And once documents of that nature are communicated to third parties any privilege which might otherwise have existed ceases to exist. So there can be no question of any privilege in any form which attaches to the draft.

COMMISSIONER: What is your response to that Mr Blumberg?

MR BLUMBERG: Commissioner I don't want to enter into a long argument about the privilege, if it's that important for counsel to see the draft statement with pleasure, it doesn't differ very much from the final statement. In fact there might be a few typographical errors and that type of thing.

COMMISSIONER: You can continue on it Mr Dickerson.

MR DICKERSON: Thank you Mr Commissioner. You see Mr Aronstam the point that I am trying to establish at this juncture is that this statement, the one you've read out, both according to your initial evidence and as I understood it from your legal representatives was signed by you on the evening of the 21st of June, is that or is that no correct?

MR ARONSTAM: It's not correct.

MR DICKERSON: Well then when was it signed?

MR ARONSTAM: I said to you it was signed at some time on Wednesday inside this hall.

MR DICKERSON: We will leave that for a moment. Did you during MR CRONJE's evidence-in-chief or before Mr Blumberg cross-examined MR CRONJE at any stage convey to your legal representatives that MR CRONJE's statement to the effect that you had promised him a gift was not correct?

MR ARONSTAM: I never ever promised MR CRONJE a gift.

MR DICKERSON: No Mr Aronstam that's not my question.Did you, at any stage before Mr Blumberg cross-examined MR CRONJE convey to your legal representatives that MR CRONJE's statement to the effect that you had promised him a gift was, in your view, not correct?

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