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Cronje's June 22 testimony

MR CRONJE: That is what he said, yes.

MS BATOHI: You see Mr Aronstam will say that he spoke about the charity, but didn't mention any gift, I am not sure if Mr Blumberg put that to you yesterday, but can you comment on that?

MR CRONJE: I was certain that there was a gift mentioned and I say that in my affidavit as well.

MS BATOHI: Mr Aronstam will testify that he, I have consulted with him, and what he says and I think it is fair of me to put it to you, is that he didn't mention a gift, because he wasn't quite sure how you were going to react to this approach and the way of approaching it by way of a charity was almost a legitimate way of trying to figure out what your attitude to this would be. Can you comment on that?

MR CRONJE: I am not sure what you are trying to ask me.

MS BATOHI: You see, what Mr Aronstam says is that he didn't mention a gift, because he didn't want it to seem like a bribe to you. All he did was mention the charity and then depending on whether you were agreeable or not, he would be able to assess your attitude towards doing business so to speak, can you comment on that?

MR CRONJE: As I say I wasn't expecting a huge gift, I wasn't expecting a gift from any amount, the gift itself has come up after this conversation took place. If we talk back now in history, or go back to the meeting, the gift that he spoke about, could have been a drink downstairs at the Villa Mora, I wasn't expecting to receive any money from Mr Aronstam.

MS BATOHI: Whilst we are on that point, so when he gave you R50 000 you must have been absolutely shocked, I mean a drink would have been good enough for you, that must have shocked you?

MR CRONJE: I was happy with the fact that he gave me $30 000 first and if it had been $5 000, I would also have been happy, yes. I was, I thought this was a very generous man, yes.

MS BATOHI: My question to you is that the gift was unspecified, as far as you were concerned, it could have been a drink downstairs, which is a far cry from R50 000. So if you were expecting something so small, that R50 000 must have come as quite a surprise to you?

MR CRONJE: Yes, I was as I said before, I am not trying to boast or to try and be big headed or anything, but I do have a lot, I don't want to put it in a bad way, but I do have a lot of money, I do deal with people with a lot of money and R50 000 is a big gift and the first R30 000 was a big gift, and I was surprised that he gave me so much, yes, but in my mind, it is not uncommon for the practice that I am in.

MS BATOHI: Just dealing with this R50 000, you were cross-examined yesterday by my learned friend, Mr Blumberg, and he asked you about what you thought this R50 000 was for, I am looking at my notes which I must confess are a little bit cryptic, and I am trying to find the right place in the transcript which we found this morning, but can you confirm what you said yesterday was you - "... don't know if he was trying to pay me for the shirt or for the friendship, I understood it was for the Centurion test match", is that correct?

MR CRONJE: Yes, I thought it was the gift that he referred to.

MS BATOHI: You thought it was a gift, the gift that he had referred to, but did he tell you what that money was for?

MR CRONJE: Afterwards I phoned him a couple of times and I asked him what the money was for, and he said to me that it was for future friendship and for future information that he might get from me.

MS BATOHI: Yes, because that is exactly what is contained in paragraph 32 of your statement, so basically you were under no illusion that Mr Aronstam expected to get paid back for this R50 000 by way of information provided by you, is that correct?

MR CRONJE: I am, I want to make it clear to you that I at no stage, at any stage, gave Mr Aronstam information, other than the odd prediction as to what I thought a good score would be, what I thought South Africa's chances was in the game, what, probably what the weather was like and what the pitches were like.

MS BATOHI: I understand that, but what I am putting to you is that Mr Aronstam made it quite clear that the R50 000 was for information in the future, you had no doubt about that, whatever it might be?

MR CRONJE: When I have spoken to Mr Aronstam afterwards, that is what he told me, yes.

MS BATOHI: From that point on you had no illusions about what the R50 000 was for?

MR CRONJE: As I said, I thought it was a gift for the Centurion test match.

MS BATOHI: I think we are going around in circles here, Mr Cronjé. What I am saying to you is that from the point when Mr Aronstam said to you as you state in your statement as well, that this money is for information in the future, you knew from that point on that you have to deliver on that, it was for information?

MR CRONJE: Not really. I struck up a friendship with Mr Aronstam and even if he didn't ask, I would still supply him with this information, because I saw him as a friend, more than somebody that was betting on the game. I built up a relationship with him since then, and we have spoken on a friendly basis.

MS BATOHI: I am not going to persist with this line, it is just that, I mean if a man tells you that R50 000 I have given you is for information, surely you must realise that you've got to deliver and give him some sort of information in the future?

MR CRONJE: I didn't understand from Mr Aronstam that he was going to place me under any pressure to deliver anything.

MS BATOHI: Is that simply because of this good friendship that you had with him?

MR CRONJE: As I say I started my friendship or my connection with Mr Aronstam on the fourth evening of the Centurion test match and I have taken a particular liking in him since then.

MS BATOHI: Please just bear with me, Mr Commissioner, I am just trying to find some notes on a consultation, before I move on from this point.

Mr Cronjé, I am just going to take you back to your meeting with Mr Aronstam, you were asked by Mr Blumberg yesterday whether at any stage there was any talk of throwing of matches and I haven't found it in the transcript, but correct me if I am wrong, your answer was, I didn't quite understand it, but you were saying something like he wanted us, talking about Aronstam, to get a negative in a match in Durban. Can you just go over that again and tell me what was discussed that night about throwing of matches?

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