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Cronje's June 22 testimony

MS BATOHI: I didn't realise it was quite so easy to meet the national captain of the side, but in any event, he then came to your room later that evening, is that correct?

MR CRONJE: I think it was about half past nine.

MS BATOHI: I am not going to go into any detail about what you testified about already, at what stage did Mr Aronstam reveal to you that he was involved with, I think you dealt with this during cross-examination yesterday and you said that he may not have mentioned NSI that night, but he mentioned a listed company, is that correct?

MR CRONJE: That is correct, his first line of approach was that he would be willing to donate a sum of money to charity if in fact Nasser Hussain and myself would be prepared to give the public something back for their money.

MS BATOHI: Did you ask him what sort of business he was involved in at any stage in the conversation, what sort of company it was?

MR CRONJE: Not that I can recall that night, no.

MS BATOHI: Was there any suggestion that evening of betting or anything like that, that night?

MR CRONJE: I think that it was clear to me that Marlon was a cricket lover and that he was in fact a gambler, if you want to put it that way, yes.

MS BATOHI: Did it ever occur to you that his interest in making a game of it, might not be purely for entertainment purposes but because it might actually benefit him in some way in his gambling practices?

MR CRONJE: It may have done, but I mean what good can it do anyone when you are not sure what the end result is going to be, I mean how is it going to affect anyone, how is it going to help anyone?

COMMISSIONER: I think it will help him immensely, Mr Cronjé if there is a book open, or to be opened on the result, and to any sane person, there can only be one result, and that is a draw, and a special match is contrived for whatever ancillary purpose it may have been, which has the effect of ensuring a result, that could be very, very meaningful information to somebody who is interested on the betting on the outcome of the game, surely.

MR CRONJE: If that was Aronstam's idea of trying to get me to, to try and make a match of it, then I wasn't aware of it. He basically wanted me to open the game up for the public and wanted to make a spectacle of the game.

COMMISSIONER: I am not suggesting by my question that you were aware of it, but do you agree with me at hindsight that that was very, that was a great - could be of great importance to somebody who is interested in bets being made on the game?

MR CRONJE: As I say, I have not been, when I say I haven't been involved, I haven't actually physically put a bet on, so I cannot rally tell you how it will affect or help or anything like that, unless you are of course a hundred percent sure that somebody is going to win or lose.

COMMISSIONER: Mr Cronjé, I am sorry, it is not being hundred percent sure that somebody is going to win or lose, it is being a hundred percent sure that there is going to be a result, when everything tells you, you being the person who might be persuaded to take a bet, that there isn't going to be a result because three days of the game have been rained off and there is no way on earth that there is going to be a result on the final day, surely?

MR CRONJE: Even when you declare, Mr Commissioner, there is always the possibility that it might be a draw, and there was that very possibility with seven balls to go, there was very much a possibility of a draw in that game.

COMMISSIONER: Yes, but you are creating the certainty that it will not be a draw, you are creating, that is precisely my point, you are creating the certainty that there will be a result.

MR CRONJE: Not at all, Mr Commissioner. If I declare, it doesn't mean that there is going to be a result. Whether we talk a normal game or a forfeit/forfeit situation. If you play Free State vs Transvaal and I declare the morning of the last day, and leave them 300 to score on the last day, that doesn't mean that I am creating a certainty of a result, not at all.

COMMISSIONER: The result may be a draw, but is creating the end of the game, which this was effectively, there is no room, there is no room for a draw in fact, there must be a result like in any other One-day game. That is what this was, surely?

MR CRONJE: No, this was still a test match, it wasn't a One-day game, Mr Commissioner, I am sorry to say that to you.

COMMISSIONER: We can continue playing on words, but we will hear it from Mr Aronstam no doubt.

MS BATOHI: You said that Mr Aronstam told you that if you declared, I am just reading from your statement and make a game of it, you said he would give you R500 000 but you agreed that it may have been an incorrect amount, because Mr Aronstam would say it was, I think, R200 000. He agreed that he would give this amount to a charity of your choice, and he would also give you a gift.

Didn't it occur to you at that stage, knowing that Mr Aronstam had some betting interests, that perhaps his offer to pay something into a charity of your choice, was a way of couching a deal that is essentially improper into some false sense of legitimacy about it, didn't that occur to you?

MR CRONJE: The fact that I allowed Mr Aronstam to influence my decision the next day, it was improper, hundred percent correct. I wasn't expecting a, I wasn't a hundred percent sure what to expect the next day, I wasn't sure whether it was going to be, I had some idea that it might be money but I wasn't sure what the gift was going to be.

COMMISSIONER: Did you seriously believe Mr Cronjé that when Mr Aronstam said that he would give you, whether it was R500 000 or R200 000, or not give you, give it to your favourite charity, that he was not saying to you "I am going to give it to you"? Really I find it very difficult to imagine that that could have been seriously regarded as a gift to charity?

MR CRONJE: I think that was his opening line to me, in order to approach me, Mr Commissioner.

COMMISSIONER: Yes, but the money that he was talking about, it might have been his opening line, where did you think, if you were approachable and you agreed with his proposition, did you think the money was going to go to charity or was going to go to you, nevermind what he clothed it in?

MR CRONJE: Mr Commissioner, I don't know if I was stupid at the time, or whether it does seem stupid to you, but I believe that there are companies out there who will be willing to give a certain amount to charity, in order to entertain a cricket match, yes.

COMMISSIONER: A charity of your choice?

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