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Cronje's June 22 testimony

COMMITTEE ADJOURNS AT 11H02

ON RESUMPTION AT 11H25

WESSELS JOHANNES CRONJÉ: (s.u.o)

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS BATOHI: (cont)

Mr Cronjé there is just one thing I want to ask you before I continue with the line we were on before the short break. You mention in paragraph 19 of your statement that you believe that MK was one of the bookmakers referred to in Dr Bacher's statement who were in his presidential suite. Why do you believe this to be the case?

MR CRONJE: I know that he was in the country and I know that Dr Bacher referred to a bookmaker that was in his presidential suite. So it was merely speculation.

MS BATOHI: Well there are lots of bookmakers Mr Cronjé, why did you speculate and think that the one that was in his suite was in fact Mr Gupta?

MR CRONJE: Because it's just a coincidence with the game, that's all, the same game, the same mentioned by Dr Bacher I believe.

MS BATOHI: We can get back to that later perhaps. You then state in paragraph 20 that you had after the 1996/1997 tour, Indian tour of South Africa, MK contacted you on a few occasions. He requested information and you said you think this was during the triangular One-day series in Pakistan. You go on to say - "I refused." Why?

MR CRONJE: I think at that stage I had built up enough resistance to help him.

MS BATOHI: Sorry, you had built up resistance to help him?

MR CRONJE: Yes, that is correct.

MS BATOHI: What do you mean by that?

MR CRONJE: I said no to any request from him.

MS BATOHI: Mr Cronjé within the space of just over a month, Mr Gupta had invested about between $80 000 and possibly $110 000 in you, and he wants only information, not even try to fix a match, simply information and you refuse. On what basis did you do that?

MR CRONJE: I felt bad about it because I knew it was wrong to take money for information.

MS BATOHI: When did you realise that?

MR CRONJE: At various times, guilt would come to me and I would feel that it is not right, what I am doing.

COMMISSIONER: Mr Cronjé, I hope I am not understanding you, misunderstanding you, you say you felt it was wrong to take money for information, if he had approached you to throw the match, would your attitude have been different?

MR CRONJE: My attitude would have been the same at that stage, I had built up enough resistance to now speak to Mr Gupta about any cricket information.

MS BATOHI: Just explain to us, how did this happen, when did you decide that you were not going to get involved in that again, that must have been quite a realisation for you because you had already taken a lot of money. When did that happen, and how did it come about?

MR CRONJE: I cannot give you a specific date and I cannot give you a specific reason.

MS BATOHI: All right, you don't have to give me a specific date, but just give the Commission some idea of how, when you took this decision and for what reason.

MR CRONJE: I wouldn't know Ms Batohi, I am not hundred percent sure.

MS BATOHI: So you don't know why, but you just decided and your love for money, at that stage, had that gone out of the window?

MR CRONJE: I think my resistance to accept any more money from Mr Gupta, overrode my love for money at that stage.

MS BATOHI: Just so that I don't misunderstand you, are you saying that you didn't want to take any more money from him, or had you decided you were not going to take money from anybody?

MR CRONJE: I was trying my best not to take money from anyone.

MS BATOHI: So, if that is in fact correct, what caused you to start dabbling in this again in January this year?

MR CRONJE: I think the approach made to me by, well the offer made to me by Marlon was a stab at my background and the reason that I was involved, the fact that I was involved in the past, made me more susceptible to it this time around.

MS BATOHI: Just getting back to Mr Gupta, when you refused to give him information, what was his reaction?

MR CRONJE: I don't think he was too upset about it.

MS BATOHI: He was not, so he was happy to let that, he thought he had got sufficient value for his $110 000 or $80 000 from you, is that the impression that you got?

MR CRONJE: I thought that he was more than happy with what he got in the past, yes.

MS BATOHI: And he simply accepted it and disappeared from the scene, is that what you are saying?

MR CRONJE: He tried me out for a couple of games during the quadrangular, but I wasn't falling for it.

MS BATOHI: And after that, he just disappeared, he never contacted you again?

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