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Cross-Examination of Dr. Lewis

MR WALLACE: Now, you saw Mr Cronje on the 13th, that is last Tuesday? Correct?

DR LEWIS: I will take your word for it, I am not sure.

MR WALLACE: At that time, he had hoped that he would be able to give evidence on the Monday or on the Tuesday itself, and had not been able to do so and subsequently the endeavours to get him to give his evidence and the cross-examination, have been interrupted by various occurrences. Have those delays had any impact on his condition, do they have an impact and if so, what is it?

DR LEWIS: Well, understandably on each occasion, I think he has had to really put out his resources to face up to the questioning, and then when it is being put off, then he has been disappointed, and kind of become a bit deflated if you like, and then again had to pull himself up for the next hearing and so on, and so I think over time, that is in itself fatiguing and I think that we, there is a general understanding that people do well under appropriate degrees of pressure, which is for a short amount of time.

However if the pressure is overwhelming, and particularly if it is recurrent as it has been with Mr Cronje, I think that that will, particularly given his background of depression, will make it very difficult for him.

MR WALLACE: What is the importance from the point of view of treating his condition, of his getting the giving of evidence, behind him?

DR LEWIS: Well, I think that clearly giving the evidence is in itself a stress, and it is exacerbating his depression, so in fact until these hearings and hearings of this nature are completed, it is very difficult to fully treat his depression.

MR WALLACE: One sometimes hears in lay parlance, Dr Lewis, of getting something behind one, as being a cathartic event. Would you like to comment on that view insofar as Mr Cronje's condition is concerned?

DR LEWIS: Well, I think it is important that we use the idea of catharsis correctly, in fact in Mr Cronje's case, it might not be appropriate. Catharsis really refers to the expression of a small amount of an emotion, where emotions have previously been overwhelmed, so for example, if somebody is exposed to an intense stress, they can then subsequently and in controlled environment, and usually in an intensely private environment, are usually then able to deal with some degree of that stress, not the stress in its full force.

One should also point out that this is not really a method of treatment, but rather part of a treatment. In other words, it is a bit more like taking a broken watch apart, it is quite easy to take it apart, as we see for example on television when somebody catharsis in front of a huge audience, but in fact the difficult part is rather painstakingly repairing it, and putting it back together again.

I think in fact a kind of public catharsis is often more damaging than it is helpful.

MR WALLACE: You talked a moment ago about an appropriate degree of stress in situations, could you just expand on that? What exactly do you mean by an appropriate degree of stress?

DR LEWIS: Well, I imagine, I am talking really about the general level of stress that we all might face from day to day and particularly where one requires a particular performance, so as in a performer of any type or business people doing a presentation, or sportsmen, but there is a degree of stress which actually helps one to concentrate and to focus. However, when that stress becomes overwhelming, it often has the opposite effect, and that is seen more I suppose with sportsmen who choke for example, where it is overwhelming.

My concern is that, for Mr Cronje, this is as we all know, an extra-ordinary amount of stress. I think the stress is heightened by media and so on.

MR WALLACE: Does that affect the way he perceives and reacts to questions put to him and so on?

DR LEWIS: I think that is important to realise, is that whenever we are significantly stressed, we tend to undergo a regression, even in a mild form. What that is, is we go into a rather more primitive way of thinking and dealing with things, where things are felt to be threatening, even when they are not necessarily threatening.

The relevance here would be for example a question which was not meant to be an attacking question, might be perceived by somebody under extreme stress, as being attacking.

MR WALLACE: And is the person concerned, conscious that they are doing that or is that just something that flows from their psyche?

DR LEWIS: The person would usually be unconscious of that, and in fact would just be battling to survive.

MR WALLACE: Lastly Doctor, would there be any benefit in your view, by holding off or postponing the finalisation of Mr Cronje's evidence in the sense of bringing about an improvement in his condition which would make it easier for him to deal with matters than it will be today or do you think that would be detrimental?

DR LEWIS: It is my opinion that it would be better for him to have these hearings over with and for him to present evidence, and then for us to begin to more fully treat his depression.

MR WALLACE: Thank you Dr Lewis, thank you Mr Commissioner.

NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WALLACE

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