'Heavy rains are not the primary reason for landslides in Wayanad.'
'There are all sorts of (human) intervention going on in that area.'
Located in the Western Ghats, Wayanad has been witnessing landslides during the monsoon season.
Scientist and ecologist Dr Madhav Gadgil had warned of natural calamities in 2010 itself.
Dr Gadgil headed the Western Ghats ecology experts panel set up by the Union ministry of environment and forests in 2010.
When the Gadgil report (external link) came out, it shocked state governments in Gujarat, Maharashtra, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Kerala. The report raised serious concerns about the state governments' seriousness in dealing with ecologically sensitive areas.
The report had recommended that several areas in Kerala which come under the Western Ghats should be classified as ecologically sensitive, which was ignored then, and is still being ignored.
Subsequently, every government rejected the report, with the disastrous consequences that are witnessed currently.
Syed Firdaus Ashraf/Rediff.com spoke to Professor Madhav Gadgil after the Wayanad landslides on what the government could, and should, have done to avert such disasters.
During the Kerala floods in 2018, you had warned about future natural disasters in Kerala. And now we have the landslides in Wayanad that have led to so many deaths. Why do you think this happened? Are heavy rains the primary reason for the landslides in Wayanad?
Heavy rains are not the primary reason for landslides in Wayanad. There are all sorts of (human) intervention going on in that area.
For instance, there are rock quarries which are in the vicinity of the area where landslides took place.
These rock quarries with their blasting send shockwaves that disturb the rock structure, which results in them becoming more fragile. And this has been going on without a break.
The risk of such disasters has therefore increased in the last 10 years.
There are false data given. For example, there is a village called Koottickal where the government said there are only three rock quarries in the area whereas Google Maps was showing 30 rock quarries.
So the risk of landslides has increased in these areas and when heavy rainfalls happen it triggers such things.
Were any lessons learnt from the 2018 Kerala floods to ensure that landslide like incidents will not be repeated?
The nation is being ruled by people who without any doubt support muddied interest. They care a damn about the livelihood and lives of common people.
The fishing community is deprived of fisheries because of pollution and the pollution department gives false data as if there is no pollution (in rivers or seas).
When fishermen hold peaceful demonstrations against these polluters the government uses the police act against these fishermen to arrest them and suppress their voice. This is recorded in our report.
What is nation? Nation is in the grip of a small coterie.
Your critics had stated that your report was excessively environment friendly and not based on ground realities. What would you say to them now? Were you hurt by such criticism?
You read the report and then make allegations.
Who is hurt? I am not. I am a scientist and everything that I wrote in my report is grounded and written in careful observation.
We have given evidence to it and the report is empirically valid though politically it may not be correct.
Your report had stated that the entire Western Ghat be notified as Ecological Sensitive Areas (ESAs). The Kasturirangan committee that followed reduced it to 37% Was this a disastrous move looking back?
Kasturirangan being a responsible government employee made a statement that the local community has no say in economic decision making.
If the quarry is leading to landslides and killing the locals, they have no right to protest against the quarry. This is what is mentioned in the Kasturirangan report.
Sadly, the floods of 2018 in Kerala and now the Wayanad landslides prove that you were right. What can be done to reverse things so that such calamities do not happen in the future?
Become a law-abiding country. We are arresting people when they are protesting against quarrying which is done undemocratically. This must be changed.
From a lawless society we have to become a lawful society.
Which are the commercial activities that need to stop immediately at the Western Ghats?
The quarry and mining work can go on. The question, however, is how can they be managed properly?
In Goa, I have friends in a village of South Goa where the gram sabha has proposed that they will do mining which has been stopped because of illegalities. The gram sabha has undertaken that they will do mining very carefully without damaging the environment. They will give employment to local people, and these are the things that can be done.
What happened to all those environmental awards like the Indira Gandhi Paryavaran Puraskar? Are there no national awards or recognition given to environmentalists any more?
I don't know about awards. I am not interested.
Landslides and floods were not to be seen in the Western Ghats in the 1960s and 1970s when development activities were not on such a large scale. Is it true?
Let me go back further in history. I am very much interested in Maratha history and Karnataka history, too. I have many documents from that period.
There were absolutely no landslides in that period of 1600s. In Pune, there is a geologist who has studied all landslides which are small and big ones. His study shows that the frequency of landslides in Maharashtra Western Ghats has increased 100-fold.
This has happened because of reckless construction of roads, railways and housing.
Housing?
Yes, they are not building homes for the poor (in the Western Ghats) but they are building second homes and third homes for India's rich class.
But we need connectivity and roads like the Samruddhi Expressway to connect our cities for better transport, isn't it?
You can check in Vidarbha and find that the Samruddhi Expressway cuts through a major hillock adjoining the village. Cutting that hillock has led to drying up of springs on which village ponds and irrigation was dependent. Now, the hyenas are coming to villages and attacking children (because water is not found easily).
The Samruddhi Expressway has not taken into consideration environment or the effects that it is causing to the people staying around that expressway.
One of the points in your report was that the government is not interested in natural based resources which is the real livelihood of the country and instead interested in industrial development which does not create much of employment. Will we have to change this mindset to save our ecology?
It depends on what kind of industrial development we are pursuing. Certainly, not water polluting industries in coastal areas which destroy the fishing industry and the livelihood of a large number of fisherfolk.
There are technologies which are in place which makes it possible for industries not to pollute the river or seawater but then the profit margins are reduced if you implement such technologies.
And there is no way anybody penalises such industries. So things go on.
Do you regret that if your report was fully implemented then this tragedy could have been averted?
I was very honest and straightforward. And whether it is the CPI-M (Communist Party of India-Marxist) government or the BJP or whichever political party, they never wanted my report.
I never expected that my report will be accepted but I did expect what is happening now, that it will be paid attention to.
This is the reason that even 13 years after I submitted it discussions are going on regarding my report.
I am satisfied that my report played a role in highlighting what is going on and has brought it to the notice of the people of India.
