'You can attack and conspire to weaken us, but you cannot destroy the Congress permanently.'
On a rainy and cold day in Dehradun, the colony road leading to former Uttrakhand chief minister Harish Rawat's residence is fairly quiet in the evening. A prominent board in Hindi by the roadside indicates the double storied house where we are to meet him. One the other side of the black gate, a few men are gathered, some huddled over a fire.
A man steps out and ushers us to a small sitting room on the first floor. A large framed picture of former prime minister Rajiv Gandhi embracing Rahul Gandhi as a boy taken at former prime minister Indira Gandhi's funeral is hung above the door.
From inside, the closed door of a room, Harish Rawat can be heard dictating a tweet on the political events taking place in the Uttarakhand assembly. The dictation is interrupted to answer calls from a couple of Congress state politcians.
As we wait for the seventy-five-year-old former five-time MP, ginger tea with Good Day biscuits and namkeen is served to us. Mr Rawat comes out half an hour later wearing a Pahadi topi over a coat and trousers and settles down to discuss the challenges faced by the Congress party, the impact of the Bharat Jodo Yatra and why the INDIA alliance will remain intact despite the tugs and pulls.
The first part of a detailed interview with Rediff.com's Archana Masih in Dehradun.
Having been in politics for such a long time, both at the Centre and in the state, in what ways would you say the politics of today has changed from what it was in the past?
The nature of politics has changed. Earlier, politics was inclusive and there was space for healthy criticism. There was no personal anger or enmity between politicians on opposite sides of the political spectrum. All these qualities are absent from the politics of today.
Today, if you are in power, then all your wrongs are forgiven and if you are in the Opposition, you will be destroyed. Those who hold power want to demolish and wipe out the Opposition.
Democracy consists of the ruling party and the Opposition, but if the party in power is unwilling to accept criticism and deprive space to the Opposition, then what kind of Constitutional democracy are we?
The Constitution lays down the rules of parliamentary democracy which lies in tatters and has lost its meaning. The majority is bulldozing the foundation of parliamentary democracy.
You say that the majority wants to demolish the Congress, can the BJP destroy the Congress?
Does it have that capacity, and can the Congress withstand this onslaught?
The BJP can never do that. Absolutely not because this is India where Sanatan Dharma and democracy are synonymous with each. There were many attempts to destroy Sanatan Dharma, there was criticism from within and outside, but it could not destroy it because Sanatan Dharma is generous and bountiful, it will continue to flow like the Ganga.
The Congress is also generous, it has the capacity and capability of taking others along and moving forward. So even if attempts are made to destroy the Congress, the party will not be destroyed and will maintain its space in India's politics.
The Congress is neither extreme left or extreme right. We steer clear of any extreme position; we are the nation's middle path and India's nature is to take the middle path.
Even the provisions of the Constitution speak of this middle path -- it does not tilt towards a region, religion, culture, language. Similarly, the Congress has taken the middle path, therefore, the space of the Congress will always remain in India's politics.
At this particular moment, you can attack and conspire against it to weaken it, but you cannot destroy the Congress permanently.
The INDIA alliance is confronted with many problems pertaining to seat sharing with its partners in various states and seems to be imploding.
How do you think it will be able to survive?
We alliance partners are competitors in state elections and have been so for years. Many of these parties have come into being by taking the Congress' traditional space. Their aim was to weaken the Congress in those states, but today we have come together because we believe that India's core values that formed the basis of India's fight for Independence are disappearing. The ideals of Gandhi, Nehru, Ambedkar are being destroyed.
We have come together on a common platform to save those ideals. The Constitution and Constitutional institutions are being destroyed. Democracy is in danger and we are standing up against this danger.
Today's political dispensation is attacking Constitutional safeguards and institutions. Our fight is against the thought process behind this.
In West Bengal, the Communists, TMC and Congress fight the assembly elections separately, therefore, seat sharing poses some challenges in certain states and we have to overcome this challenge.
There will be difficulties is seat adjustments, there could be states where we cannot arrive at an understanding till the last minute, but despite that the alliance will hold on. It will remain intact because we are united on the principle of fighting against the thought process espouse by the opposite side.
These alliance partners are drawn from the thought process that emerged from Gandhian values while the opposite side follows the thought process of the RSS. The RSS did not accept India's Constitution in the beginning and today's government reflects that thought process.
We are working on the nitty gritty of seats sharing and solutions are emerging. In the states where we can't decide on seat sharing agreement, we will fight it alone and come together after the election.
Mamata Banerjee has said that the Congress will not even win 40 Lok Sabha seats which is indicative of how angry she is with the Congress.
Politicians have a lot of work and are pressed for time and sometimes say such things. We should not give it much attention. We know our purpose, our goal and we have to stand together to defeat this adverse/opposite thought process which poses a danger to our Constitutional democracy. We have to fight them hard and defeat them in 2024.
You are sure that this alliance will not collapse?
Absolutely! No one has the power to say that this alliance is no more. The person who said 'no more' had to go to the other side -- Nitish Kumar. No one will refuse/refute our alliance. They all accept it.
The seat sharing difference could be tactical or due to other reasons -- we may have to have a friendly fight on some seats in Punjab because we would not like to give the anti-incumbency space to the BJP alone, we may want that vote to come to us. These are my personal thoughts, I don't know what the leadership thinks.
You participated in the Bharat Jodo Yatra.
It is being said that Rahul Gandhi should have been in Delhi just now, not on the current yatra and the timing of the yatra is not right.
In today's time, no place is far off. Technology and connectivity has bridged distance. Discussions that can be held in Delhi can happen anywhere, there is no obstacle in that. The work has been allocated within the party leadership.
This yatra is also important, jan sampark [contact with the masses] is very important.
The BJP's stranglehold over democracy has to be broken. It is not as if the BJP only has the right to democracy in India. It needs dedication and hard work to regain our space and Rahul Gandhiji's yatra is doing just that.
The yatra is bringing out the real issues of the people and highlighting our issues. The yatra is such an important event that even the helpless, powerless media -- I don't call it Godi media -- is being compelled to show it.
But wherever the yatra has gone there have been problems -- Nitish left, Jharkhand, West Bengal...
You can analyse it both ways. The yatra drew such a response in Assam that the state and central governments put their full might behind disturbing the yatra. This shows that the yatra is having the right impact.
The Mahabharat was fought to give justice to a woman's honour; Lanka was destroyed in the battle for a woman's honour. Similarly, Manipur is also about the battle to give justice to women and that is why the Nyay yatra started from Manipur, but it ruffled the feathers of the government to such an extent that the whole Centre and state put their entire might behind disturbing the yatra.
In Bihar, the NDA alliance is completely defensive and we may pose a danger to the government of Paltu Kumar who is trying his best to save his government.
And your MLAs have been shifted to Hyderabad.
That is because we want to be cautious. Why should we give them the opportunity to attack us? At present, the NDA in Bihar is trying to save itself. They are under pressure because of the impact of the Bharat Jodo Yatra, therefore, they opened another front in Jharkhand which was foiled.
Champai Soren was successful in proving his majority after the whole central government put all its power to dislodge an Adivasi chief minister, but they failed in Jharkhand.
It is a big loss for the NDA and credit to Rahul Gandhi's yatra. It is how you perceive it -- and this is another perception regardless of whether you agree or disagree.
- Part 2 of the Interview: 'Lord Ram Will Protect The Constitution'
Feature Presentation: Aslam Hunani/Rediff.com
