'Hatred increases with every killing.'
'It sets one family against another.'
'The sooner it is stopped, the better.'
Colonel Shanti Kumar Sapam has commanded Naga, Kuki and Meitei soldiers in the Assam Regiment.
Together, these men from different tribes fought for the integrity of India in several operations in Kashmir, Punjab and in counter insurgency missions in Nagaland and Manipur.
Today, when Manipur is burning, engulfed in horrific violence between Meitei and Kuki groups, the retired colonel is a voice of reason.
A proud soldier, he draws examples from the time when he was tasked to protect remote villages of Manipur during violent clashes between Nagas and Kukis.
He spoke and reasoned. He urged them to leave the past, and co-exist in peace.
The situation improved gradually. Not a single bullet was fired. No house was burnt and together, the Kukis, Nagas, Meiteis, Nepalis went on to celebrate the golden jubilee of India's Independence.
"What I learnt was that if you talk sincerely, you will get results," says Colonel Sapam in the concluding part of his interview to Rediff.com's Archana Masih.
- Part 1 of the Interview: 'Hum sab Indian hai; udhar bhi aur idhar bhi'
What have been your conversations with Kuki and Meiteis that you have met in these two months?
A Kuki soldier from my regiment called me to say that he was going to Aizawl, Mizoram, till the situation improved. He used to play football with me in the regiment. I told him that it was a sad thing that he had to leave. I told him let us all pray that we are together again soon. We said we will meet again together once the situation became normal.
Another Meitei JCO, a subedar major, called me and said his brother's son was killed in the clashes. He broke down. The soldiers of my regiment from both sides talk to me.
You were posted in Manipur during clashes between warring tribes in 1994.
You were tasked to safeguard different Kuki, Naga and Meitei villages and worked with all of them till peace was established. How did you do it?
I was first posted to safeguard a remote Kuki village for three months. We spoke to both sides and not a single bullet was fire, or house burned. Peace was restored.
I was then posted to Sanakeithel. It was a Naga village which was the most sensitive in entire Manipur.
It was situated in a valley and surrounded by 32 Kuki villages.
It was early 1995 and the situation was very tense. The villagers could not venture out. Our vehicles also could not move without the assistance of a RoP [Road Opening Party].
I went and spoke to each and every headman of every Kuki village and made them understand that if they attack, then there would be a counterattack and the cycle would not end -- only the poor will suffer.
I told the Kukis that if anybody attacked my village, they would have to go through me and my troops. I had mounted LMGs (light machine guns). I made it clear to them that we must live in harmony and whatever misunderstanding had taken place was now a thing of the past, and we should co-exist.
The situation improved gradually. Not a single bullet was fired. No house was burnt. There was no jhagda, no ladai.
I was there for three years during which we celebrated the golden jubilee of our Independence. Defying all the objections from various groups, we along with the villagers celebrated the 50th anniversary of India's Independence.
The children did not know the national anthem and my Assam Rifles jawans taught it to them. It was such a touching moment for me.
We all sang the national anthem and the national flag was unfurled by me in front of the villagers. Together we celebrated India. We had a special lunch also.
1998 onwards, peace was established in that area and my entire company was lifted because there was no need for us anymore. The Naga and Kukis were left in peace and were capable of managing their lives themselves. Peace was restored.
We were then moved to another sensitive place in a Meitei area.
I feel such happiness and sense of satisfaction when I think of that time now. I was just a young captain then and together we had been able to restore peace.
It surely must have been such a sense of satisfaction for you.
What I learnt was that if you talk sincerely, you will get results. I was in military intelligence at that time and was tasked to write some reports and submit them to Army HQ directly.
Whatever I recommended to the central government and Indian Army got done on the ground immediately.
I was overwhelmed that a captain's recommendations were agreed and worked upon. I feel if the Government of India feels a recommendation is justified, it never says no. However, the demands should be justified.
For two months, Manipur has been burning, over 150 people have died and 50,000 displaced, villages burned, arms looted. How do you look at the situation?
Hatred increases with every killing. It sets one family against another. The sooner it is stopped, the better. There will be no winner or loser here. Nobody will win and nobody will lose.
The population of Manipur is just 30 lakhs, less than half of that of Lucknow! It is a small state with such a tiny population which can be brought under control.
There are learned people in the central government. They will not deny anything if a demand is justified. The central government needs to give a danda -- show the ruler like a teacher does to a student in class -- to Manipur.
There are more similarities than differences between the tribes in Manipur -- like I said, economically and in terms of education, we are all still weak.
What should that 'danda' be? What should the Centre be doing?
If the force deputed here is unable to control the situation, then the Centre should be very strict. Doesn't the father rap the kids when they don't study hard or misbehave?
Similarly, the Centre is our father. Manipur is geopolitically very sensitive. We have a border with Myanmar and China is close by. The Centre has so many agencies that must be providing information and those that are erring should be punished.
There has been so much hatred created in the last two months. More than 150 people have died. What can be done to heal the scars and wounds?
People from both communities must come out and speak about peace. Nobody will lose and nobody will win. It is a sensitive border state and this fighting must be brought to an end.
Has this fighting done permanent damage to the state?
I don't think it has done permanent damage, but it will take a very long time to heal. If a peace commission is formed, it should be managed by the Centre, not the state.
The Centre should send a good administrator to bring the situation under control.
In a video that went viral a few weeks ago you had tears in your eyes when you said that Modiji is like a father of this country and should pull up his erring children of Manipur.
It happened when I was with my ex-NCC cadets. They told me that they were planning to surrender their certificates to the NCC. I told them, 'no beta, you should not do this'. I said, 'You have earned these certificates. We have a government, we have a system and we have to have faith in the government'.
The prime minister is an institution; he is the father of this country till the time he is in that post. Modiji is like our father. We are his children. Don't children speak to their fathers? Doesn't a father pull up the children when they misbehave?
He is working hard for our country and we are all proud of him. The Centre and state have to work together for the betterment of our country.
Like-minded people from both sides have to work together.
In your capacity, how are you trying to help in bringing peace?
Since I was in-charge of the NCC in Manipur for several years, I am still in regular contact with the NCC alumni who are a sizeable number. I made them understand that there is a system which has to be followed by citizens and the state.
Manipur is a sensitive border and national security is very important. Nationalism is very important for whoever is working in Manipur -- central or State. I keep telling people 'koi jeetga nahi, koi harega nahi'; if we continue like this, we will all lose.
What is the difference in the culture and lifestyles of the Kukis and Meiteis?
In terms of education and economy -- all Manipuris are still very weak -- Kuki, Meitei or Naga.
Education came very late to Manipur. I am a first generation educated person in my family. My parents were illiterate.
I thank the Government of India for the merit scholarship I received; otherwise my parents could not have afforded my education.
Historically, Manipur was a small kingdom surrounded by hills with little exposure to the mainland. It is only in the recent past that recognition has come to Manipur.
So, as far as culture is concerned, the Meiteis, who are mostly Hindus, are a little ahead, largely because of contributions made by Maharaj Rajarshi Bhagyachandra, creator of the Raas Lila dance form. Not only Manipur, but the whole country is proud of him.
Sankritana of Manipur is a world renowned UNESCO acknowledged art form. When it was recognised in 2013 by UNESCO it was a proud moment for me. I got goose bumps.
Therefore, economically and in terms of education, all Manipuris == Hindus, Christians and Muslims are all in the same boat.
Like I said, I was the first generation to be educated in my family while my fellow officers in the army were third generation. Some of them were fourth generation soldiers whose forefathers had served in the British army.
I have nothing to hide. I believe if you work hard, you will get opportunities. I have learnt this from experience.
Feature Presentation: Aslam Hunani/Rediff.com
