'Unsurprisingly, Trump shared Modi's podcast with Fridman on his Truth account.'
'The intentions of Trump, a transactional president, are never easy to tell.'
'We will know in the next fortnight if and when he unfolds reciprocal tariffs on Indian goods, whether Modi's flattering words made any significant difference to Trump's compass,' notes Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar.
As an avid follower of Lex Fridman's podcasts, I can say that his 3-hour interview with Prime Minister Narendra Modi has been a fantastic media management success for the Indian establishment.
Fridman is something of a celebrity himself to celebrities like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Kanye West and Tucker Carlson.
Donald Trump interrupted his presidential campaign in September last year when it was on razor's edge -- in the middle of his two assassination attempts -- to give an interview to Fridman.
Fridman has a reputation for deep, authentic conversations and is the the antithesis of quick-click journalism of the sort that in Indian digital media space largely turns out to be performance presentations or fictional narratives.
Fridman lets his notable guests speak, and inspires the audience to come, listen and stay -- and, most important, he joins his audience, being himself a listener first. That distinguishes his uniqueness.
Therefore, an interview with Fridman is never a risky affair. The challenge of the celebrity actually lies in engaging his attention rather than sparring. Fridman is not in the least interested in oneupmanship.
What caught his imagination was the 'spirituality' of Modi, a poor boy from a Gujarati Hindu family of Other Backward Class background in Vadnagaman who made it big in Delhi, the citadel of the Brahmin-Baniya elites who rule India.
Reportedly, Fridman fasted for 45 hours in preparation to 'talk spiritually' with Modi!
Modi is very selective in giving interviews. The Indian media is, generally speaking, unfriendly (and unfair) towards him, including the toads who may flatter him in public.
But what must have attracted Modi would have been that through conversation and connection, Fridman's podcasts put the power back into the people.
Modi is reputed to harbour a sneering contempt toward the so-called intelligentsia but Fridman ended up showering praise on him later while posting the video on X and adding that 'It was one of the most moving & powerful conversations and experiences of my life.'
Now, that is a rare compliment because one can sense from Fridman's engaging conversations about the nature of intelligence, consciousness, love, power, etc -- and the range of topics he has covered in his podcasts and videos from human nature, Palestine/Israel conflict, investing, AI, Ukraine, lost civilisations, aliens, Judo and so on -- he stands out as a quintessential brooding Russian intellectual himself, belonging to the creme de la creme of the Soviet emigre community in the US, almost in the same league as, say, Sergey Brin, co-founder of Google (also, like Fridman, born in Moscow) who helped make America great.
However, it is difficult to describe what Fridman's podcasts are all about. Their intellectual content goes without saying.
His 3-hour conversation with Fiona Hill certainly added that extra something to the dozens of books I have read on Russia over decades, especially that spark when she drew comparison between the collapse of the Soviet Union and the current, real time, 'live' decline of the United States from the perspective of an English woman with working class background who found herself in Harvard and the White House National Security Council.
But that is one part of Fridman's profound contribution to journalism.
Basically, his interviews are about you. They're about us. You end up relating yourself to Fridman's conversations.
So, what left in me a poignant impression was when Fridman gently drew Modi out, to speak about his childhood.
I couldn't help relating Modi's narrative to my own childhood in almost similar background -- although from another corner of India.
After all, as Wordsworth wrote in his famous poem My Heart Leaps Up (also known as The Rainbow), 'The child is the father of the man.'
Modi had a happy childhood, although his family was poor and had struggled amidst want, deprivation and denial.
But his mother too, like mine, had that rare cognition to raise children by encouraging them to spend time talking with God, build a special relationship with Him and help lead the child towards a life of faith by understanding that it will face many choices in life and not all choices are good ones.
There is a beautiful passage in Modi's recollection of his life's journey where he touches on the mystique of fasting, its spiritual content, how he practises it during the period of Navaratri when he would consume for 11 days only warm water -- and once he had to dine with President Barack Obama.
Of course, anyone, like myself, who has practised fasting would know the massive accretion of inner strength that takes place during such periods.
It wells up surreptitiously drip by drip, takes shelter in the attic of the mind and comes up stealthily in times of trial and tribulations in day-to-day life.
But then, fasting is not about denying oneself to enjoy life but on the contrary, taking a pause to enjoy life even more.
Modi understands that. Look at his expensive clothes, shoes, wrist watch or fountain pen.
Donald Trump as alter-ego
However, at the end of the day, what is Modi sans politics?
Evidently, Modi anticipated the two tricky questions that Fridman was bound to toss at him -- Donald Trump and China. And he came prepared.
Modi lavished praise on Trump as a man of courage, borne out of his firm conviction that he has been chosen by God as a man of destiny.
Modi is attracted to Trump's 'America First' doctrine but seems unclear in his mind what it really means.
Thus, Modi equates Trump's doctrine with his own simplistic concept of 'Nation First'.
Modi said, 'I stand for India first and that's why we (he and Trump) connect so well.' But life is real.
Modi misses the point that America First goes far, far beyond what passes as pursuit of 'national interests' which is an inchoate concept anyway.
Manmohan Singh used to call it 'enlightened national interest' making out that he knew that extra something that we, the subalterns, didn't know.
'America First' is closer to mercantilism -- a repugnant variant of nationalism that is antithetical to Indian values tracing back to Mahavira and Buddha.
Unsurprisingly, Trump shared Modi's podcast with Fridman on his Truth account. The intentions of Trump, a transactional president, are never easy to tell.
Trump is an emotional man but also a mercurial and highly motivated personality.
We will know in the next fortnight if and when he unfolds reciprocal tariffs on Indian goods, whether Modi's flattering words made any significant difference to Trump's compass.
Cherry picking China's fruit bowl
Indeed, the highlight of Modi's interview was his thoughts on India's relations with China.
This has been Modi's most significant overture to Beijing through the past decade in power forcefully advocating an improvement of relations between the two countries.
Its salience lies in the thaw in the India-China relationship in the recent past and Modi's genuine desire for dialogue over discord.
Modi candidly acknowledged the tensions, but pointed out that 'we have seen a return to normalcy at the border ... (and) are working to restore conditions to how they were before 2020.'
But this was as far as Modi would go, knowing fully well that within his party and the Indian political spectrum on the whole, there is no consensus on India-China relations.
The Gordian knot of the 6-decade old Indian narrative still remains largely uncut.
The fact of the matter is that Modi is (re)positioning India taking into account the epochal transformation in the world order and the growing realisation in the West, including the US, that a containment strategy to prevent China's rise as a superpower is no longer viable.
Second, there is a dire necessity also for the Indian economy to normalise with China.
The Economic Survey of 2024 had revealed that 'India faces two choices to benefit from 'China plus one' strategy: it can integrate into China's supply chain or promote FDI from China. Among these choices, focusing on FDI from China seems more promising for boosting India's exports to the US, similar to how East Asian economies did in the past.'
Suffice to say, Modi's India is only cherrypicking. A paradigm shift in India's China policies is not to be expected in a near term.
Modi hinted that the two parallel tracks of competition and cooperation will run side by side.
In sum, all that Modi is doing is synchronising his Rolex watch with Trump's Patek Philippe Golden Ellipse, who according to latest reports, is looking for a summit meeting with Xi Jinping as early as next month.
The bottom line is, this is an interview that is meant for catching the attention of the global elite -- the small cosmopolitan group of the most influential businessmen, politicians, bureaucrats, and opinion-makers in the world capitals -- to Modi's attractive personae, the part of his character that he would like to reveal to other people.
India's mofussil politicians needn't get unduly excited over his alluring presentation of himself, which he is entitled to as the charismatic leader of a nation of 1,400 million people.
However, this interview does not concern India and Indians. At its core, Modi is treating himself to a big dollop of seductive self-indulgence, which operates on the principle of validation.
That is to say, when we receive compliments or praise, it triggers a release of dopamine in the brain, eliciting feelings of pleasure and reward.
This neurological response is deeply ingrained in human nature, driving us to seek approval and recognition from others.
However, it also poses a challenge to Modi. The challenge will be to make that desired perception relevant to his future work or personality.
Put differently, it must show results. Or else, it is only teflon coating that may provide a glossy finish but not durable, is not resistant to high temperatures in the Indian summer and can get damaged under extreme weather conditions in the landscape of current history.
Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar served the Indian Foreign Service for 29 years.
Feature Presentation: Aslam Hunani/Rediff.com
© 2025