The Rediff Interview/ Pramod Mahajan

'George is not the type of minister who makes money'

On Wednesday night, we published the first part of Union Minister Pramod Mahajan's interview with Senior Editor Sheela Bhatt. This is the concluding segment of the conversation.

Our hearts sank to see Samata Party President Jaya Jaitley sitting in the defence minister's home and accept money.

I find it unfortunate to hear this kind of allegation against the defence minister. I have never seen a defence minister like George. Not only his integrity and honesty, but at 70 every other month he goes to Siachen, that shows his commitment to India's security and its soldiers.

I can't even imagine for a second that that man is involved. He is not the type of minister who makes money. You don't have to go to Siachen every other month to meet arms dealers! That shows his commitment. And he is 70 plus. I am 20 years younger than him. I may not even breathe there. But he visits the glacier regularly.

How do you think this person will purchase something?

But Jaya Jaitley took Rs 2 lakhs, right?

See somebody goes and say that look, this is our problem… Yes, I'll put up the problem to the minister... Paise? Party ka adhiveshan ho raha hain, unko do (the party conference is due, donate there) This is normal, routine politics.

Would you like to comment on this trendsetting style of journalism and its ethics?

I don't think that is a major issue. If you ask me I would not say whether the investigators were good or bad. It is the journalist's job to expose and bring out the truth. Suppose off the record, I talk to journalists and say something sensational, and if he crosses the Lakshman Rekha and prints that, I don't think we should blame him.

When asked if there was a conspiracy against his government, Prime Minister Vajpayee said, 'Dal mein kuch kala to hain.'

There are many things in the last few weeks which you may like to look at. The best Budget versus the worst Sensex. The best investment deal and allegations. The Quran episode and riots. The election in 5 states. If you club all these together, that may be at the back of his mind. I can't comment.

As Parliamentary Affairs Minister, what is the Mahajan defence strategy to face Parliament?

We are ready to discuss (the issues) under any rule. We are ready for any kind of inquiry. Whatever be the consensus of the Opposition for the mode of inquiry we will agree.

Will a Joint Parliamentary Committee be convened to investigate the issues raised by the Tehelka probe?

It depends on their response. I am not that naive to think that they will allow me a departmental inquiry. Three types of inquiries exist: A judicial inquiry with a sitting judge in the chair; something under the Commission of Inquiry Act. I don't think a CVC or CBI inquiry will be asked for. It has to be an independent inquiry, independent of the Executive. However, the CBI and CVC are independent, but they are organs of the Executive. For us, for this agni pariksha we don't want any inquiry which can be dubbed partisan.

Are you ready for such an inquiry?

Tehelka.com has created two issues. One about government ethics, the other about political party ethics. We may be on a little weaker wicket on political party ethics. But on government ethics, our honesty and integrity, we are not on a weaker wicket. Why should we worry?

All around the country, people are asking: What about Mr Vajpayee's moral authority?

Main to kahunga nischinrup se ye dakka hain (sure, it is a setback). Ye sachcha nahi hain, hamara man manta nahi hain ke ye sach hain (This not true, our hearts disbelieve it). Lekin phir bhi, BJP ko is agni pariksha se gujarna hi padega (still, the BJP has no choice but to pass through this test ). Caesar's wife should be above suspicion.

I am talking of the prime minister.

In this case also, no one is blaming him.

Do you think this is the BJP's Bofors?

Abhi to nahin lagta hain (Not yet). Bofors was an accomplished deal. Here there is no deal, nothing is purchased, nothing is sold.

Still, money changed hands... People are upset about that.

Have I said I disagree?

What then is the difference between the Congress's and the BJP's corruption?

I have to take this question. After all, my image of honesty was my own creation!

Yes. During election time.

No, it was not propaganda. Propaganda se koi honest nahi banta hai (no one becomes honest with the help of propaganda.) My shirt was whiter so even the smallest dhabba (spot of dirt) in the corner will be visible. It will show. I will take care in the future, but what can I do now?

Will Mamata Banerjee resign?

The NDA is made of one national party (the BJP) and 20 to 22 regional parties. So every regional party who supports the NDA has less national agenda and more of a state agenda. Naturally, she is the best judge to decide that in the coming election, if any association with the NDA under such circumstances will help or not help her. She will take the decision according to that. What decision she will take, I can't say.

Is your government in danger?

No. If you talk about the numbers game then I don't see it. Because my government's majority is not 9!! (Mamata's Trinamul Congress Party's strength in the Lok Sabha). I don't see any arithmetic problem, it may be a political problem, may be a moral problem.

It is too early to ask, but what lessons have you learnt in the last 48 hours?

They were vulnerable for things, they should not have been. They should have been conscious about it.

Bangaru Laxman's resignation as BJP president is an admission of guilt, is it not?

No. He has resigned, he was not sacked. The press would have asked either way. If he resigns, 'Do you think there is an admission of guilt?' And if he did not, it is arrogance on his part to continue in spite of the allegations.

We have not suspended him from the party. Resignation is not an admission of guilt.

Is the NDA government stable?

There is no danger to the government. My problem is not the government's stability, but its credibility. The challenge before us is to establish its credibility.

Stability is a small game! It is pre-determined. The issue is defence, it hurts any citizen. Though, unfortunately, in defence, many things people don't know so it shocks them more.

The RSS and BJP always said the Congress was selling the country. The same party's president is seen taking money on camera. A nationalist party like yours…

We are saying no one should do such things, and definitely not our party.

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