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February 13, 1999
ELECTIONS '98
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The Rediff Interview/ Francois Gautier'Gandhi's and Buddhism's ahimsa, were the non-violence of the weak and the coward; not the non-violence of the lion'What are your views on the Nehru dynasty and Sonia Gandhi's recent rise? It would be a real shame if Sonia Gandhi becomes one day India's prime minister. It is not the question of her being a foreigner (although there should be enough brilliant people amongst the 800 millions Hindus); it is the question of her having not the slightest idea of what India is truly about, locked that she is in her 6, Janpath fortress, surrounded by sycophants. Moreover there is no doubt that she is a Christian, which is perfectly her right; but as most Christians, she probably has a hostile bias against Hinduism -- and it shows in her remarks against the BJP and for "secularism". As for the rest of the Gandhi dynasty, I hold Nehru most responsible for this country's present condition, because his policies have done tremendous harm to India and continue to do so. What we see today is his legacy at all levels of Indian life, be it political (secularism), education (Macaulyism), intellectualism (Left) or even art (aping the West). India's relations with the US are at best rocky, but lately France seems to have taken it upon itself to try and supplant the UK as India's partner in Europe. Is there going to be improved trading relations with the EU? I should hope so ! the US has demonstrated since 1947 the most stupid, arrogant, ignorant, short-sighted policy towards India. Today is no better, as it is continuing to favour Pakistan, a country which is ten times smaller than India, ten times less democratic, ten times more dangerous. When you see the amount of love, adulation -- nay aping, I would say -- there is amongst Indians towards America; and when you see at the same time the basic hostility that the Muslims masses in Pakistan and other Muslim countries have towards the US, you can only conclude that Americans are the most idiotic race there ever was in this planet, which is already full of imbeciles! France is equally ignorant of India, but for some strange reason there is a measure of good will, of sympathy, of symbiosis even, for India. It gets translated sometimes in the wrong manner: France's love for Satyajit Ray for instance, who however brilliantly, presents a very pessimistic image of Indian society. But there, we find a ray of hope, there is a chance of the two countries finding some meeting ground. Thus if India, now that she is a nuclear power, can develop some kind of privileged relation with United Europe, it could counterbalance the US's hostility. But then you will see, as soon as China will start to falter economically -- and that should not be too far -- the US will suddenly "discover" that India exists and Newsweek will run a cover on "the other Giant of Asia". The rest of the world, which anyway always copies America, will follow. What do you think the long-term fallout of the nuclear bomb will be? India should stand by the dogma of ahimsa, non-violence, But to be non-violent one needs to be strong . Over the centuries history has shown that India has always been the bullied, the oppressed, the invaded, whether by Alexander's armies, the Muslim, or the Western colonials. Even the Chinese made mincemeat of India in 1962. By getting the nuclear weapon, India makes the first step in getting some respect -- even if it is fear -- in the eyes of its hostile neighbours. Look at the paranoiac reaction of the Chinese, isn't it symptomatic? Also there should be no doubt in anybody's mind that Pakistan is the latest reincarnation of Islam's militant hatred towards Hindus, the Infidels par excellence. Pakistan's present active hostility towards India, is nothing but what the Koran still preaches: Jihad fi Sabilillah, 'Holy War for the Greater Glory of Allah'. In the face of such hostility, India has to guard herself; then only she can allow herself to be magnanimous. Gandhi's and Buddhism's ahimsa, were the non-violence of the weak and the coward; not the non-violence of the lion, which lets prey walk by, because he is not hungry and knows he can get them any time he wants. In some ways, aren't you being disloyal to your country and the Catholic faith into which you were born, by accepting India so much? Why? A soul has no nationality, no religion! Rather I would say that it has only the religion and the nationality of it past lives. Each soul has a history and belongs to some country, some race, where it reincarnates again and again. I consider India as my country, not because I happen to live here, but because the moment I set foot in this country, something deep in me recognised that it was my place, my known territory. Now it is also true that I cannot deny my own culture and upbringing -- and I am proud of it in many ways: it allows me to express myself, it gave me the backbone of my professional and literary achievements. If only India could get some of the material perfection the West has, its thirst for perfection, its caring for the others and motto of egalitarism! If you were setting India's course with Europe, what would you do, on a political and foreign policy front? Again, India has to assert her own personality, by pursuing the foreign policy that suits best her own interest. Automatically she will then gain respect, not only from Europe, but also from the US. Actually India should take a lesson or two from China. Look at the Chinese, they do exactly what they like, they keep threatening and blackmailing the world, and not only they get away with it, but also have the respect of all Industrialised nations. India presents a far more better picture than China, which has killed a million innocent Tibetans: it has managed to remain democratic in spite of all its problems -- separatisms, overpopulation, corruption, etc. I think Europe will come to appreciate India's democratic achievements, specially the day when China's iron (and bloody) communist hand will be removed by whatever circumstances. That day, all problems which were kept bottled-up and suppressed in China will erupt to the surface and one could witness a chaos similar to what happened in URSS. And this is exactly what the present government should tell Europe : "Look, you cannot ignore us, we are the next superpower in Asia and the largest country by 2020; we are nuclear, but we are democratic and we have a long tradition of tolerance and culture". I think a few nations will understand that language -- maybe not the British, (who are anyway a spent nation) because they still live in the past -- but at least the French; and maybe the Germans. How exactly does the French people and the French establishment view India? The view from here is that the French are supremely pragmatic, not given to posturing. I did not know the French were supremely pragmatic! The German, surely; but the French: you flatter them! French are like Bengalis: they are great talkers, good artists, warm, fun-loving people, but infinitely lesser doers than the Germans. Today with modernism and the American way of business, which the US has slowly imposed upon the world, this may be changing; but still the French love good food, fun, debating and posturing -- witness their sports mania, which is mostly armchair sportsmanship! This is why maybe there is an empathy with India, which is also a bit of an armchair sportsman, such an in cricket, this crazy sports left by the British, which is totally unsuited to India's climate. True, the French are the only nation which did not condemn India outright after their nuclear blasts. There may be three reasons to it: first of course, the French had just concluded their Pacific tests and suffered themselves from the world's hypocrite condemnation; two, there is that mysterious 'kinship' between India and France (of which Sri Aurobindo and the Mother of Pondichery often spoke); and three, different Indo-French programmes, started by Mrs Gandhi who spoke good French and knew Malraux well, continued by Rajiv Gandhi who promoted the year of India in France in 1985 and continued by Mr Chirac's visit to India beginning of 1998, finally bore some fruits. Your views on Hinduism and its central place in the Indian enterprise, if it were to come from an Indian, would be considered 'fundamentalist'. But you seem to be tolerated to some extent by the 'secularists' of India. Is that primarily because you are a white person? Is it a racial thing? Very good question! I would say that it is not so much because I am a white person, although that can help in India, either because the average Indian is nice with the Western man, or because there is a colonial hangover here which means that your white skin sometime opens you a lot of doors with India's upper class, 'elite' intellectuals, or top bureaucrats (in passing, upper-class Indians must be the most snobbish people in the world; but they don't realise that it is something they inherited from the British and that they are only aping their erstwhile colonisers). No, I would say that the fact that I work for a very reputed and conservative newspaper opens a lot of doors to me, which would otherwise be closed. Konraad Elst or David Frawley, that other eminent Indologist, do not have this privilege and I make the most of it (would you interview me otherwise?) Paul Theroux said recently that Indians are obsessed about race, caste and food. What do you think? Paul Theroux is a very pompous man and on top of that, a mean and treacherous friend -- witness his book on his ex friend Naipaul (who had the courage to change his ideas about India). People like Theroux may be brilliant and witty, but they are quickly forgotten by History: who will know Theroux in 100 years? As for his opinion about India, I would not pay too much attention to it; first it is not very original, as millions of Westerners have already condemned India in the lines of race, caste and food. By race, he probably means the Aryan race, which is as we have seen, is a bogus subject; we shall not get again into the caste issue, the favourite whipping boy of India haters. But food?? At any rate, the West is much more obsessed with food than India! From the Romans downwards there was a mania of overeating and bulimia is a typically Western phenomenon, (which may come to India because of Westernisation). But long ago, Indian sages knew that "one eats for living; but does not live for eating".
Francois Gautier Bibliography
* The Wonder that is India (Voice of India, 2/18 Ansari Road, New Delhi 110002)
Interviewer's note: This interview was completed in December 1998, before a series of violent Hindu-Christian incidents were reported in Gujarat and Orissa. |
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