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ASSEMBLY POLL '98
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'India should not have been a secular country in the first place!'
E-mail from readers the world over
Date sent: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 10:02:25 -0500 I sincerely hope this time at least, Rediff will post what I have to say. I have a comment on conversion of religion. Has anyone ever bothered to check with these converts, if this is really their choice or was enforced upon? It is human nature that no matter what you do, you cannot force someone against their will forever. Look at our civilisation, we have been conquered time and again but eventually none of these rulers were able to rule forever. Regardless of reasons to convert -- financial, spiritual, or any other -- respect that it is the choice of these people, yes, may be it is hard to comprehend, but it is the choice. Believe me, if these people are forced, they will not be suppressed for too long and eventually come back to their true calling. If the fundamentalist government really wants to reform education, educate these anti-human rights activists.
Date sent: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:18:24 -0500
Hello Rediff here is some hard evidence that planned conversion of
Hindus to Christianity does happen, and the sooner people realise and act
on this, the better. This is a church in the US which has targeted 23
tribal groups to be converted and have spelt out their intention in the
web site below. In fact, they also have html pages dealing with each of
the tribals and an action plan. In the web site below, especially have a
look at the last sections.
http://www.bethany-wpc.org/profiles/clusters/8057.html
Date sent: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 23:09:38 -0500 This article was very shocking to read and tells us more of the religious decay that India is going through. For all of us and for the poor souls who are caught up between this terrible political/religious plot by a few scheming minds, I hope this is temporary. If it were possible, could you please post more on this subject on your site? Ashly James
Date sent: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:54:09 -0800 Indians should not be shocked at these incidents. This is the inevitable result of voting Hindu, supremacist parties into power. Joachim Fernandes
Date sent: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:29:24 +0900 I was surprised after reading this article by Alan de Lastic. Being the head of the Christian community in India, he was virtually glorifying conversion. I think this will sound real bad to any ardent Hindu soul. The Christians claim they are just 2 per cent of the Indian population, and that they may become 3 to 4 per cent after conversions, so what is the big deal? If you believe this then you simply don't know the real statistics. To understand what really is going on, you have to visit the state of Kerala in South India, where I originally come from. Today Kerala has something like 25 per cent Christians. How? There are areas in Kerala, like Kottayam, Changanacherry where the Hindus have been obliterated literally. And all this did not take too long in terms of years. The Christian missionaries are never in dearth of finances, with money pouring in from the US, and NRI Christians. These missionaries go about doing their conversions covertly and cleverly. They follow a step by step approach. First they buy a lot of land in a new area. Then they build a small church, obviously there is no shortage of funds here. Then they convert a couple of families by giving them money, land etc. Then they use this as an example 'Family' and promise other Hindu families prosperity if they come to church. Their main arms are the nuns, who know pretty well how to do their job. They do this by frequenting a particular area/ village they are assigned to by the church. They visit all the houses routinely, and induce their preaching upon the poor and middle class people. When a family comes under some financial or other difficulties, these nuns arrive immediately and promise help, and timing is very important. Obviously a person loses all senses when he is mentally disturbed. And the nuns know when and how to rope in their prey . Once the community in that particular region goes above a threshold level, they start entering politics. Here I guess is the real turn around. The Churches nominate the candidates as MLAs , MPs and provides them with all the money and support. After the mass is over, the subjects are told overtly to vote for "Our Man" and that he will help us further our goals of power. Mind you I am not joking. This is really what is happening in Kerala, nowadays. Take a simple example of the city of Cochin in Kerala, which is my birthplace. Today all the elected MPs and MLAs from here and adjoining places are Christians. It has been the case for the past many years. I do have many Christian friends, and I don't believe in a "Hindu only India." But what I am trying to say is that the growth of the BJP and its other organisations like the RSS, is simply a natural and logical backlash by the majority community against this massive level conversions taking place here. I am sure that as long as the Christian missionaries and the community as a whole has these hidden ambitions in India, there is going to be a definitive backlash by the majority community. So, I would like to say one thing to our Christian Brothers... mind your own business, and don't poke your noses into other's lives. Leave them alone. Else you are all going to have a tough time. This is going to be a very practical and logical outcome, and the signals are now beginning to show in our society. Vande Mataram! Uday
Date sent: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 05:31:12 PST No matter what anyone says, if one goes to a predominantly Christian country like the US or any Western country for that matter, I sincerely doubt that Christians will take the forced or persuasive conversion of Christians to any other religion lying down. Why should we in India be so 'flexible' that we stop caring for what other people are doing to our religion -- Hinduism? India should not have been a secular country in the first place! I do not see anything wrong with the so called anti-Christian wave. In fact I don't think it is an anti-Christian wave, it is a pro-Hindu wave. Arjyo
Date sent: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 15:54:21 -0600 Subramanian is crying wolf and barking up the wrong tree, as is usual with others of his ilk. On the one hand, they bemoan the "increasing intolerance" of Hindus. I ask how tolerant the Christians are, when they remove a sacred murti of Lord Shiva from the church. Did they at least install the murti in a nearby temple or did they throw it away? Why can Lord Shiva not be venerated along with Christ? Aren't Christians taught the latter-day "religion" of the equality of all religions to maintain that elusive ideal of "communal harmony?" In reality, the jealous god of Abrahamic religions is the cause for such friction. After all, the 330 million deities of Hinduism do not seem over-anxious to evict neighbours. By contrast, Jesus says in Matt. Ch. 6 "Pray not as the heathen pray with vain repetition, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking." With such a role model, the attitude of converts toward the spirituality of their pagan ancestors and neighbours is not exactly overflowing with respect. The Revelation of St John and the Epistles of Paul, not to mention the tirades of Ezekiel and the massacres of Moses and Joshua, reinforce their condescending and often hostile attitude further by reinforcing the idea that all pagans, no matter how virtuous, are excluded from divine grace. Thus, conversion constitutes nothing but civilisational aggression to preach an exclusivist ideology. In another column in Rediff, Darryl D'Monte laments the sad state of the Elephanta temples which are vestiges of an ancient civilisation, first vandalised by idol-breaking "pious" Portuguese, who had been granted the East Indies by an obliging Pope. If vandalising the vestiges of civilisations past should invite censure, conversion constitutes the greatest act of vandalism, destroying a living spiritual civilisation. S Ramakrishnan
Date sent: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 12:57:42 -0500 This is a fantastic article that exposes the misdoings of the VHP and the Bajrang Dal. We Indians in the United States need to know what is going on in our country. More articles like this.
Date sent: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:23:39 -0800 The issue of anger against Christian churches should also bring along with it, the issue of conversions all over the country in the recent few decades. It is not a secret that conversions, with the help of foreign assistance still go on in Third world countries. Even though attacks on Christian followers are to be condemned in no smaller words, the issue of conversion which hurt religious sentiments of other people, needs to be discussed. Switching religions have been around in mankind, but it has been in Indian society, only through discussions of the philosophical truth conducted by high learned saints. We learn from the scriptures left behind by people from Shankara, Ramanuja, Buddhists like Nagarjuna, and others that there has always been discussions (samvadha) held in congenial atmospheres to understand the truth, the knowledge of which leads to happiness for the individuals as well as the society as a whole. Only the semitic religions have adopted conversions through force in the history of the world. Any conversion, whether through force, or other means like offering money etc., is not healthy and is bound to hurt the sentiments of the other people belonging to religions suffering conversion from. If the Christian churches and the Islamic society cannot stand the process of reconversion back to other religions, they should be able to understand the hurt of the followers of other religions when conversions take place out of their religions. The freedom of others ends where my nose begins. The idea of synthesis among various religious people can be realised only when every religion recognises the right of other religions to survive without the onslaught of conversion. If this issue is brought forth for discussion across the fabric of the country, the shameful incidents of attack on Christians will also leave behind some good fruits for generations to come.
Date sent: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 13:33:19 -0800 India has to ban the existence of Christian missionaries. It may be true that they are involved in conversions of the poorest sections of the Hindu society. It cannot be allowed to proceed further in the name of charity work. I would request Rediff authorities to look into the designs of one Christian Broadcasting Network with mobile medical clinics. They have a history of persuasive conversions and I have watched their programmes on US television. They criticise idol worshipping and request all Christians to indulge in conversions in India. CBN has an office in Hyderabad. The reactions in India are not directed against any particular individual but against the Christian system. If the politicians don't put forth a Uniform Civil Code, then we are about to witness more such incidents in the years to come. Ramsundar Lakshminarayanan
Date sent: 5 Dec 98 03:08:44 PST What kind of jokers do we have in this country? If showing lesbianism in films is corrupting the young, then is the senseless violence and the extremely suggestive gimmicks that Hindi films show a great lesson for the young generation? What is Sudha Churi talking about? What about the pornographic songs that Hindi films keep belching out? And of course, didn't the great Chhatrapati Balasaheb Thackeray organise, invite Michael Jackson? I guess, having been asked to step down as chief of the women's wing of the party by Chhatrapati, (if I am not mistaken), Churi was desperate to put herself back in the limelight. And the Sena is known to seek soft targets always, since they do not have the guts to tackle the larger issues. I am also amazed that she has not seen the movie herself. Man that takes the cake! And what cheek to demand that Shabana Azmi should be removed from Parliament. If there is anybody to be kicked out, it is the Sena clowns, who I believe will be in trouble if there are elections now.
An indignant reader
Date sent: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:17:23 -0800 It seems lunacy has became a prerequisite for the secular and leftists writers in India. Otherwise, how could Ashok Row Kavi compare protest by one dozen Sainiks against a movie which portrays lesbianism, to the Taliban's actions like removing all girls from schools (as they are called bey-hayat according to their interpretation of the Holy Quran), forcing women out of the work force, and making it compulsory for women to wear burqa and men to grow beards? Condemning some organisation for its views on a particular matter is one thing, but unwarranted analogies to mislead readers only proves that the writer has some personal agenda. The last time I was in Bombay, I saw the Shiv Sena ruled Bombay teeming with girls, wearing everything from mini-skirts to saris and everything in between. So I wonder if Kavi lives in some a la-la land. Even in liberal USA, almost all Christian institutions abhor homosexuality. Does it make them Taliban associates? And is Pope John Paul of the Vatican, who opposes gay rights the biggest Taliban? Kavi, take a hike to Afghanistan and see for yourself how Taliban treat women and then come back to report to us. I will be waiting to read your report.
Jay Nitturkar
Date sent: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 08:47:35 +0530 Let us learn to face facts of life. While such films do not help Indian culture and should be avoided, violent protests against its mere screening is not welcome.
Date sent: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:21:03 -0800 Unbelievable! I can't imagine what possessed you to interview Ms Sudha Churi. Without a doubt, her comments are by far the most immature, irresponsible, and completely self-contradictory statements I've seen in a very long time. She has not seen the movie, she apparently doesn't know anything about the millions of homosexuals worldwide, she advocates and participates in violence, and believes that young people won't follow her lead and be violent (and even if they do, she's not responsible), she says only college kids are seeing the movie and then admits they are adults. But the most incredible statement made by her is "even those people are repelled by what they see, even though no one has complained as yet!" Is this woman for real? Murali Krishna Devarakonda
Date sent: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 22:49:48 -0500 I think Sudha Churi is closing her eyes and refuses to see the realities surrounding the women of our country. I live in America, and I have attended several conferences on children's and women's issues. I have heard educated Indian women say on stage about their living preferences and expressing relief after having come out of the "closet." After all sexuality is just an individual's preference. If two people can live happily without conflicts, why can't the society allow them to live their chosen life style. I have colleagues who are gays and lesbians and we sit side by side and perform our duties. The excellence of our task is in how we perform our task and not who performs the task. I consider them as friends and very good human beings with their preferred life style. I may have feelings if my daughter or son says that they have a partner of the same sex. On the other hand, if they are happy, who am I to dispute and interfere in their life. Sudha is not broad minded. Everything out of the ordinary is not to be condemned. I saw the movie months ago when it was screened in a theater here. The theater was house full. The movie was taken in good taste to let everyone know what is happening in our community. Sudha thinks that everyone should live a lifestyle that she can approve. Why? Learn to accept people as they are. Anything that is not normal is not necessarily bad. Grow up Ms Sudha Churi and smell the flowers. Everything will be okay. Shabana has intelligence, talent, looks (many politicians lack this) and demonstrates patriotism. Who on earth is Sudha to say that Shabana does not deserve the membership in the Rajya Sabha?
Vatsala Vivek
Date sent: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:21:07 -0600 Who the hell do these thugs, who call themselves Shiv Sainiks, think they are?! I am appalled at the blatant violation of the freedom of expression by such fascists. To top it all, the chief minister instead of upholding the law of the land in his state, has publicly encouraged the actions of these hooligans! Is there anything like law and order in our country anymore? I am an Indian who considers myself fortunate to be born in an independent India. I have the greatest respect for the courage and endurance of our forefathers who made it possible for us to breath the air of freedom against all odds. What right do these bunch of fanatics have to offset all this? Who are they to redefine the Indian culture and tell me how I should live MY life or think what THEY want me to think or do what THEY want me to do. We are indeed going into a "Talibanisation" of the society by a handful of scum under the guise of religion and culture. The American president is on the brink of impeachment for sexual misconduct. So much air time by the networks and millions of tax dollars were spent on investigating something so "trivial" (if I may be allowed to be a bit liberal and use that word). Contrast this with the leaders in our country. They misuse public office for personal gains, don't even know the meaning of the word 'truth,' loot the country (corruption is too mild a word, given the magnitude of embezzlement), instigate and in some cases lead communal riots...the list of perversion of a civilised society is endless. There is total anarchy... a classic antithesis of democracy. At best we are a "Banana Republic" that looks like a democracy to the outside world but in reality it is a suppressed society. There are too many "remote controls" in India and the public is being made out to be some kind of a lifeless, mindless and spineless zombie that trudge along to the crack of a whip by these remote controls. They want us to close our eyes on things which they perceive as immoral. What these people don't realise is that, you can't shut yourself from reality and hide in a cocoon of ignorance and self denial. If attacking a movie theater or threatening the movie goers is their way of preventing the "corruption of minds" then I don't want to hazard a guess on the future of democracy in India. The saddest part is that the so-called secularists on the other hand are going to press for a ban so that the vote banks are kept intact. Even if that means strangling the very ideals of a true democracy. Kiran Nair
Date sent: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:45:13 -0800 It is sad to see political parties resorting to violence when other lawful methods could have been followed, if they so desired to stop viewing of the film. It is also sad to see people in power come to such alarming conclusions based on someone else's views on a movie without watching the movie first hand. The worst part in this controversy is the chief minister of a powerful state mooting violence of this degree if it suits his views and wishes. Is this the kind of hooliganistic democracy that we are advocating to the rest of the world? Politicians should be even more responsible in their comments. Is Shabana Azmi a "BAD" person just because she acted in a film (and done a fine job) that deals with sensitive issues. Does she dispense her duties as a RS member any less or has she suddenly become less capable of dispensing her duties? The comment made by Sudha Churi about revoking Shabana Azmi's RS membership just shows how narrow-minded people can be. I feel ashamed as an Indian that we as a people have spawned such leaders. Samuel Ranjeet Devasahayam How Readers responded to Saisuresh Sivaswamy's recent columns How Readers responded to Arvind Lavakare's recent columns
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