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ASSEMBLY POLL '98
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'Hardly a democracy, hardly a free place, hardly a place where freedom of speech and expression mean anything'
E-mail from readers the world over
Date sent: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 12:41:24 +0800 You are very right Ashok Row Kavi. Keep it up! Ram
Date sent: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:53:06 -0600 Thanks Kavi for pointing out that India is pluralistic precisely because it is predominantly Hindu. As I see there is no difference in things said and done by either Sahmat, Shabana & Company or by the Bajrang Dal and Shiv Sena. Unfortunately, there are very few journalists in India like Mr Arun Shourie who actually do research about the subject before writing.
Date sent: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:03:14 -0800 I agree! I think a lot of Indians are getting tired of the "Hindu Taliban" aka the Bajrang Dal etc. Are these "issues" ? Why don't they use their effervescence in mobilising vocational training or creating a cleaner and greener Mumbai or organising co-operatives like Amul?
Date sent: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 14:21:41 -0800 Kavi has said the the most important thing that anybody has said in a long while. One comes out with the feeling that the correct title of the piece should have been "Expose the so-called Indian Secularists" and not what your overzealous sub-editor has done in titling it as "Expose the Hindu Taliban!" The Hindu behaviour of militancy as seen now-a-days is the result of the naive or perhaps intentional plot of the minorities to make Hindus helpless in their own country. Why should not Hindus worship Saraswati and sing Vande Mataram in their own tax-paid schools and inculcate in their children great pride in their culture? If Hindus were not tolerant and behaved generously in history, where would these minorities be in India? These minorities should thank their stars that they live in India with a Hindu majority. Find out the plight of minorities in any other country, whether Christian or Muslim, and realise how well they are treated. The so-called Hindu progressives have developed a disdain for their history, thanks to British education. If you do not take pride in your past, what are you? A non-entity, which all Westerners want you to be. They even have banished the word Hinduism -- they call it Brahminism, now-a-days. Hindus still believe that minorities have freedom to enjoy their rights, but not by denying the same to the majority. If they say that they have the right to annihilate Hinduism by petro-money and blood-stained money from Christian countries, then Hindus have every right to hit back and hit hard. One would understand what I am saying when corrupt Indian Christian mercenaries come to the US to spit venom on Hindus, on American television stations. It is this attitude of minorities that has made Hindus weaken their innate quality of generosity and has led to serious re-thinking. Declare that you are not out there to exploit the poverty and ignorance and convert Hindus to your religion and see how Hindus react. A simple thing. Try it and you will like it! Hindus do not want others. They never convert. They believe in several ways of living and praying. You do the same as a starter and make your life easier. Vaman Rao
Date sent: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 12:41:03 -0600 Finally, an extremely balanced and sensible take on secularism and what it means in India. The comment about pluralism being existent in India not due to the Muslims and Christians and Buddhists simply being there but because the Hindus themselves are pluralists is one of the most incisive observations made today about Indian society. This article should be taken as the definition of secularism in modern India. Right now, the situation seems to be totally out of control. The 'Hindus' attack Fire, the 'Muslims' attack Satanic Verses, the 'secularists' attack Me Nathuram Godse Boltoy. This is a clear indication that whoever can organise and then incite a mob into throwing stones and indulge in vandalism is the holder of power in India. Hardly a democracy, hardly a free place, hardly a place where freedom of speech and expression mean anything. The only ray of sunshine is that the Mehtas, Rushdies and Dalvis of the world keep the Fire, the Verses and the Voice of creation alive. Ashish Gokhale
Date sent: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:47:00 -0600 Those who attacked theatres in protest against the showing of the movie Fire were exaggerating the impact of one movie on Hindu culture. Similarly, you at Rediff are guilty of using hyperbole in describing the incident, making it sound as though anarchy had been let loose in the country. Do you even understand the meaning of the term "Hindu Taliban" ?? If there were such a thing, you would have been bound, gagged or even killed before long. Do you realise what colossal damage you cause to the country's reputation abroad by your alarmist reporting?? You are on the Internet and a lot of people read your papers. What you are telling them is :-
Is this what you are trying to say?? If yes, then we have gone beyond the stage of argument. If not, then better change your style of reporting. Because you are beginning to sound worse than the most naive and uninformed CNN documentaries on India. Sandeep Shouche
Date sent: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 08:11:10 -0800 This is a truly great article and Ashok Row Kavi is a true Hindu as well as a true secularist. He need more people like him in India. Keep up the good work. Why don't you write more articles?? Pritesh
Date sent: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 13:31:56 PST Since the advent of Hindutva, for the past year or so, there have been numerous articles in leading dailies protesting against the cultural police and the concept of Hindutva itself, saying it's against the Hindu culture which promotes a pluralistic and tolerant outlook. The Buddhists, Jains and the various philosophical schools which existed in the ages past, plus the fact that numerous peoples of various faiths came to India seeking shelter from persecution, is also used to justify this claim. Is this true?
No! I don't agree and refute that Hinduism is pluralistic in outlook, in
the way it's commonly proclaimed.
No way!
Though diverse schools existed, the central theme was an unfailing and
sincere quest for the truth. Anything which didn't subscribe to reason
and didn't promote social harmony was hounded out of existence. The
Caravakas are a prime example. Hedonists that they were, every school
went out of their way to attack their philosophy and wiped them out of
existence. The Bauddhas, with as noble a founder as Gautama Siddhartha,
too suffered the same fate.
Though preaching ethics, their semi-nihilist
stance, which didn't confirm a Soul or God, was considered harmful to
society. The war was fought on the base of reason and logic, with
the Bauddhas coming out second best. The Brahmanical schools absorbed
the best ideals of Buddhism, making it an irrelevant second religion and
thus sounded its doom. The Jainas who didn't endorse a creator
God, didn't deny the existence of the Soul and for that reason didn't
attract as much criticism as the Bauddhas. They still survive in
Bharat.
With the demise of Buddhism, the Brahmanical schools went at each
other's throats. Adi Shankara, India's greatest philosopher, with his
non-dual philosophy -- Advaitam, which represents the meeting point
between Buddhism and Vedic Hinduism, with his incredible dialectics
subdued the other schools making Vedanta the supreme school. It didn't
end there. A few centuries after Shankara -- Ramanuja, Madhva, Nimbarka,
Vallabha -- each came out with their own versions of Vedanta, each
appealing to different strata of the spiritual populace. But again with
Truth and social harmony in mind.
So, it's a misconception that Hinduism of old, was tolerant in the sense
it's commonly presented. Tolerant only for the Truth. Anything which
didn't subscribe to reason and was against social harmony had to go!
It's true that Bharat presented a safe refuge for people of various
faiths. Jews, Zorastrians and various persecuted people sought refuge in
Bharat. Even Islam and Christianity was accepted in its early years
when spread peacefully, before the invading hordes. But those who sought
refuge could practice their faiths, only as long as they didn't
interfere with the local customs and practices.
Read Vidyaranya, who was the minister of the
kings of the Vijayanagar Empire, which presented the Hindu bastion
against the invading hordes of Islam who had already occupied a
significant part of Bharat. He displays total contempt for the Muslim barbarians who raze temples and expresses deep rage at their practice of
killing cows. Not very secular, is he? And Vidyaranya is revered as one
of the greatest sages in the Advaitam tradition, which preaches the
unity of all existence.
Bharat has made great contribution in almost all fields of science and
art and is without an equal when it comes to philosophy. It's only in
Bharat that Plato's dream of a society led by philosophers, ever
existed. It's natural that a civilisation which has existed for
millennia should have experienced diverse flows of thought. But that
doesn't mean what whatever cropped out was encouraged or even accepted.
Vatsyayana's Kamasutra is, of course, a product of Indian genius. But
that doesn't mean Indians keep it on their bookshelves. Bharatrihari
and Bilhana's erotic poetry is indeed beautiful. But you cannot teach
them in schools. There is a time and place for everything. Whatever
might have been the situation at the time of Vatsyayana, Hindu
society over the ages has leaned more towards discretion on matters sex.
"Liberal" and "Free" thought has been in existence in the West only for
a few years and its negative effects on the society are already there
for all to observe. For without control, "freedom" tends to veer towards
excesses, causing more harm than good. About "moral progress" in such
societies -- the less said the better.
The endurance of the Hindu way of life is there for all to see, for it has
survived oppression of the worst kind and still holds its head aloft in
pride. It's strength is its commitment to truth, reason and decency.
Its ideals are best exemplified by Gandhi's three monkeys -- see only
what's good; hear only what's good; speak only what's good. To exploit
the tolerant spirit of Hinduism, is but perversion.
Fire? BURN IT!
Date sent: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:12:36 -0900
I just read Rediff's interview with Sudha Churi criticising Deepa Mehta's
beautiful and sensitive film Fire. I found Ms Churi's ignorance more
obscene than anything on film! The obscenity of her ignorance lies in its
rape of reason after an attempted seduction of Truth...
Ms Churi's obscene act began with a clumsy political striptease...
a pretence of innocence adorned in the pink chiffon of moral
indignation that is the uniform of the Shiv Sena's "Girl Gang". As soon
as the buttons of "tradition" popped off her argument (about three or four
questions in...) however, her naked political agenda was revealed...
At that point, she dropped all pretence and hastily ripped off the
rest of her rational clothing... She impatiently brushed aside the interviewer's
questions which revealed both her inherent contradictions and ignorance.
In the end, when she confessed that she hadn't actually SEEN the movie, the
rape of reason began. When I finished the interview with Ms Churi, I had an
irresistible need to take a hot shower!
Elstun W Lauesen II
Date sent: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:52:43 -0500
From: "Aditya Varma"
C'mon, Shiv Sena, it's high time you become mature and responsible.
These attacks by the Shiv Sena can only be classified as acts of
cowards... They should stop talking about what is good or bad for the
people; for who are they to determine? The people are mature enough to
decide for themselves. They will give the verdict. Let the movie play
and let the audience decide its fate.
If these people of the Sena are talking about non-confirmity to Hinduism, I would suggest they go and do some serious study of the Vedas. Surely, they don't have the right to dispute what has been written down ages ago. As far as I know, there is
nothing against lesbianism in the Hindu scriptures. Is the CEO of
the Shiv Sena aware of this? If so, educate your organisation.
A party which stoops to violence to force its opinion on the public doesn't have a
right to govern. Honestly, I no longer see any difference between the
Shiv Sena and the Taliban.
Date sent: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 10:40:35 +0100
These people are sick! I hate to be identified with this lot. It is strange how people just declare themselves to be guardians of Indian culture, Hindu religion etc.
What qualifies them?
But honestly, it was fun to read. The best joke was:
What scene in the film specifically offended you?
I haven't seen the film myself and I don't even want to see such a film, our workers saw it and they told me about it.
I remember another such incident.. Rajiv Gandhi proudly
declared that he had banned (the first Asian premier to ban)
Rushdie's Satanic Verses without having read it!
It is the sad story of India, that while we have the best
(comparable to anyone in the world) engineers and scientists,
we have nincompoops as bureaucrats and morons as politicians deciding the future of the nation.
Narendranath Nair
Date sent: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:44:52 +0600
May I suggest that on issues like this you carry out opinion polls,
similar to those by CNN, and then publicise the results nationally, so
that people can know what the majority really thinks ? It is true that
Rediff readers are not typical Indians, and some, like me, not
even Indians, but it will indicate how educated people think.
Very good interview. You brought out all the weak points in the
fallacious arguments.
Dr A Shafee
Date sent: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:00:06 +0530
THIS REPORT OF YOURS IS EXCELLENT.
PLEASE KEEP US UPDATED ON SUCH FILMS, IN FUTURE ALSO.
ANYWAY, REDIFF NEWS IS REALLY INTERESTING AND INFORMATIVE.
Date sent: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 11:52:07 +0530
Your report was nicely presented and was not biased.
Personally, I feel there is nothing wrong with the film. I
have not seen it but I know the story. If at all they do not like the
movie they should not see it. But if someone wants to see the same then
I don't see any reason why s/he should be stopped.
And the chief minister's comments, well what can I say?
"SORRY FOR YOU, MAHARASHTRA".
Date sent: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 22:12:18 -0800
Good questions. It amazes me how regressive minded we are becoming. Indira
Gandhi was right when she characterised such political elements as fascists.
First, the protests against Miss World contest were so ludicrous but the
powers that are in government never rebuked such elements. Now the government is encouraging such acts. The informed opinion of India better wake up
before it is too late.
Dr Gopal Reddy
Date sent: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:55:57 -0600
Sudha Churi does not know what she is talking about. Hundreds of
temples and the art there do represent homosexuality in its
entirety, and there are books like the Kamasutra that talk about all
forms of sex, even about sex with a prostitute. Are these going
to corrupt the people of India?
People like Sudha Churi are acting as the protectors of a society which already knows these things exist in the world. There should be discussions, there should be
brainstorming about the theme of the movie. Then, if they want
let them try to educate youth, saying these films are bad.
Instead of that, what she has said is: take away Shabana Azmi's
Rajya Sabha membership. This is stupid, these people are against
any change! If there is no change, there is no development in
society. Different ideas should come. If society thinks it is
good, it will accept it, otherwise, it will be rejected.
Instead of protesting against the movie and the actors, what these
people should do is fight homosexuality if they think
it is wrong. You can't ask the youth not to see these things. No society
has developed by concealing things. People like Sudha Churi
represent the orthodox India, where anything and everything is
wrong. There is a vibrant youth coming up in India, and their
eyes cannot be kept closed for a longtime!
Najeeb
How Readers responded to Vir Sanghvi's earlier columns
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