'What is happening is not globalisation, it is invasion'

Part I: 'Mineral water is where the action is'

What are your views on globalisation? Do you approve of the way India has been globalised over the years?

Globalisation is not the correct word. The right word is invasion. Globalisation means, you also go out. Who has gone out (from India)? Globalisation should be a two-way process, not a one-way street.

Why do call it invasion? The intellectual class feel the entry of multinationals has intensified competition, improved the quality of products, widened the choice and empowered the consumer.

Of course, I don't deny all these things. But it is not globalisation. First, globalisation should mean that many of our companies should also be going abroad, which is not the case. Second, this intellectual class....the rich....accounts for what? 0.001 per cent of our population? If we did what we did, in terms of opening up of the economy, based on need, then I'd have been happy. But what we have done is what we have been dictated upon. And today, in the name of globalisation, we are adopting what is called Codex for our food laws.

(Codex is the major international mechanism for encouraging fair international trade in food while promoting the health and economic interests of consumers. The Codex Alimentarius Commission was created in 1962 by two United Nations organisations, the Food and Agricultural Organisation or FAO and the World Health Organisation or WHO. However, some countries feel the mechanism is loaded in favour of the developed world at the cost of the developing, underdeveloped and backward countries).

I told the ministry of health, 'This is legalised adulteration.' Remember the infamous blotting paper episode? Blotting paper was rampantly used in the ice-cream industry to make the product creamy, thick. This was done because low-fat ice creams had watered down milk content, so to make the product thick and rich, they used to mix blotting paper. Now, they would be allowing this by law. Blotting paper was not allowed so far to be added to fruit drinks like Frooti, Maaza. Now they call it a thickening agent. Sometimes, a nice word is used to explain away things. Something like stabilizer. What stabilising it does, I don't know.

Look up a bottle of ketchup. The trouble with educated people is, they don't even read the information on the labels. They mention these stabilizers and emulsifiers. Ask these guys, 'What are these?'

There was a time when I was very proud that our law did not allow the use of colours in ketchup. Earlier, they used crushed pumpkins and onions for colour. Now synthetic colours and flavours are being used.

You say globalisation should be a two-way process. There was a time when you owned some of India's best-known brands. Didn't you ever get tempted to launch them abroad?

No. No.

Why not?

We didn't have that kind of money. We didn't have that kind of an organisation nor people. A company like Indian Oil, which is huge, or Bajaj, or even Reliance, they find going abroad difficult. You know what kind of monies you are talking about? We did launch Mazaa in Dubai, Kuwait, Saudi. We sold very successfully. After selling off the brands to Coca-Cola, I didn't have the necessary people here to back me up and back those brands.

Increasing health consciousness is said to be one of the factors behind the sudden spurt in popularity of bottled mineral water in India.

That is there. AquaGuard (water purifier) did the spadework. But I think we at Bisleri should take the credit for the rising importance of mineral water, for putting the necessary systems in place, for marketing it in a systematic way, and for making it available in more and more places at an affordable price. That is where, I think, the winner is.

Sure, awareness of health issues is a factor, but more than that, people drink water because it is a thirst quencher and safe.

How do you plan to introduce the fun element (in addition to the thirst-quencher and status/image-consciousness factors) into the marketing messages for Bisleri water? How can drinking water be fun?

Oh yes, the fun element will come, but it should not be looked at as a frivolous activity. Song-and-dance is not what we want in our promotions. There is enough of song-and-dance on television.

Why did the talks with Coca-Cola for Bisleri fail? There are many stories about that. What exactly happened?

Nothing happened. There was no talk. I am very clear in my mind. There were no talks really, no discussions. So there is no question of any failure. There was just this: they asked, and I said, 'No, I'm not interested in selling'. That was the end -- the beginning and the end.

It was just that? No haggling over the right price?

We didn't discuss anything. There was just one sentence from their side, and one sentence in reply from my side. All those stories about talks over price, etc, were not true.

Is it true that you do not like to hire consultants to learn how to do business better?

If you know what you want to do, why do you need a consultant? What I need is one who can implement plans. We have got so many brilliant ideas. We are full of them. Consider selling these mineral water bottles at street-corners -- it's a simple, brilliant idea. But implementing and executing it is a tough job -- organising boys, getting permissions, this and that...it's a tough job.

In your estimate, what could be the value of the Bisleri brand?

I shall not say that. I've no way of estimating it. And any value is as good as what somebody is prepared to pay. If you think the value of a certain brand is so much, and nobody is willing to pay even 1/10th of that, then you are just kidding yourself.

Sometime back, it was reported that you feel MNCs don't have the expertise to sell mineral water to Indians in India. What is it that Bisleri has and others don't have?

No, that is not true. I didn't say that. What I meant was the ones who are here now, they have a different kind of expertise. Take Pepsi. It sells mineral water in America and other countries. They need to concentrate on selling soft drinks. In the present set-up here, where do they stand?

First, you must have a concept as to what you want to get across. Then, what are the kinds of pricing, what is the kind of distribution, what is the kind of commitment you are going to make on it... these are the factors that determine whether or not a business would be successful.

There are many companies like Nestle that forayed into pickles. They flopped in that. So it is not a question of expertise, it is one of commitment, organisation's focus, driving in that direction. According to me, the soft drinks fellows need to resolve the cola war, find out who is the winner, and then proceed somewhere else. You can't leave that war unattended and leave for somewhere else.

In other words, you would be happy not having all these MNCs in the mineral water market.

No, no, no, not that. I'm not bothered by their presence. It's not that only these two (Coca-Cola and Pepsi) are going to be there. Brittania is definitely coming. So are Nestle and Levers. What is the difference between these guys and those guys. I think those guys (Brittania, Nestle and Levers) are going to be more focused.

What makes you confident that you will be able to take on all these players and still retain your market-leadership?

I think we've got some good going. I think we know what we are trying to do. There seems to be no confusion in what we are trying to do. I made a few mistakes already in Bisleri, like not having a plastic business much before. We should have realised that we won't be able to outsource supplies of the quality we want. We made a few mistakes in franchising. So these things have been corrected. Now, I'm sure we will make a few more mistakes as we go along. And we will learn from them.

Soft drinks, colas, can be differentiated. Every company seems to have a closely guarded secret formula of ingredients. Not so for bottled water. How can the consumer choose a water brand? Don't you think this business will lead to undue emphasis on brand-building?

What do you mean by undue emphasis? It is as much a business of brands as it is of water. Our job is to build brands.

Why should one drink Bisleri, and not some other brand of mineral water?

What makes one comfortable? Why does one drink mineral water? Security, safety, habit...so many things. I expect that we are not going to lose out to others. We will be concentrating on this business in an enormous way. Others who are into soft drinks can't do that. They have so many other things to worry about, their colas, oranges, lemons, fruit drinks. So it's a question of concentration, it's a question of getting something right, and a little bit of luck.

India was known as a land of perennial rivers. Their abundant waters were considered not only pure but sacred. In the 21st century, national and multinational companies are competing to sell bottled water to Indians in India. Does this seem a paradox to you?

No, I don't see it that way. Unfortunately, the truth is, we have ruined our natural resources. What are we to do? You can't blame Ramesh Chauhan, nor can you blame the Gods. The Gods have been very kind to India, there is no doubt about it. Gods have given you such beautiful rivers, such fantastic rainfall, everything is there in our favour, but somehow, we can't seem to manage it.

You have strategies to offer mineral water at public places, offices, weddings, celebrations in future. Some people perceive this as opportunism. They feel if municipal water is found unsafe, the logical thing to do is to make it safe for human consumption. Why should bottled water be the solution?

One does not prevent good things from happening. If some people want to improve the water standard at railway stations, Bisleri is not stopping them. I don't see any conflict here. Both can happen. The situation in New York is excellent. The municipal water there meets the standards of the WHO (World Health Organisation) and the EC (European Commission) and the federal law specifications. All the same, it's a big market for mineral water.

Your brother, Mr Prakash Chauhan, owns Bailey, the second biggest brand in the mineral water segment. Is there a possibility of the brothers teaming up and fighting the MNCs together in future?

There is no problem. We don't need to. The thing to do is, each one should sit down and concentrate on his work and do it right.

There is a view that if combined, Bisleri and Bailey would create an invincible brand.

Bisleri is an invincible market-leader. I will strengthen it. Bailey has been number two for a long time. This (brothers doing their own businesses) has been around historically for a long time. You can't change history. 30 years of history is behind it. How can you change that? You can wish that 30 should become three. But 30 will remain 30.

Most of the investors are enamoured of the new economy, e-economy. Doesn't it interest you?

I don't understand e-commerce and electronic things. All the same, we are exploring ways of selling mineral water via the Internet. We want to find out if people could place orders and Bisleri could supply. We will do that. After that, my next generation will improve upon this mortar and brick business.

We were in the software business, 15 years ago I think. We just wound up... when Wipro had its stock issued...that was the time I think. (Laughs).

Last question. May I know what did you do with the billions you got from the deal with Coca-Cola?

My story has lessons for people interested in making money, people who want to maximise returns on their savings and investments. All the things I did are exactly the things they should NOT do.(Laughs). We did not invest properly. Most of the money was invested in Bisleri. Others who struck similar deals were intelligent. They invested their money wisely. Not I. We made a mess of the money we had. That is why, now, I say 'Look, let's spend money on Bisleri where we are the boss and I'm running it.'

Photo: Jewella C Miranda

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