'Only weaklings succumb to threats'

'Ajit Pawar wants to escape from the clutches of the investigative agencies.'

Will Sharad Pawar's trusted nephew Ajit Pawar and trusted shishya, Praful Patel leaving the NCP weaken the veteran leader?

What will happen to the initiatives taken by Pawar to bring all the Opposition parties together to take on the BJP in the 2024 elections?

P C Chacko, who has been with Sharad Pawar ever since both of them started their political journeys together, answers these questions in an interview with Rediff.com's Shobha Warrier.

The concluding segment of a two-part interview:

• Part 1 of the Interview: 'Praful Patel was almost in tears'

We have seen ruling parties using investigative agencies for their benefit. Is there any difference in the way the BJP uses them from what the Congress was doing when they were in power?

To an extent, there may be some parallels. Again, I don't think it has never reached this level.

All parties in power use the state machinery against the Opposition, but this kind of naked use of official machinery has never happened before.

People can say it was there during Indira Gandhi's time, but it was not even one tenth of what you see today.

In Tamil Nadu, they started raiding the houses of all the ministers, but (Chief Minister M K) Stalin stood strongly.

We need that kind of courage. Only weaklings succumb to this kind of threat.

Do you think Ajit Pawar leaving the party has weakened Sharad Pawar and his image as the leader who can be a rallying point to keep the opposition together to fight the 2024 elections?

If I say no, it may be a little exaggeration. Whoever leaving a party, especially a leader like Ajit Pawar who is definitely the number two figure in Maharashtra, will have an impact on the party.

But you also must understand that his image as a mass leader is care of Sharad Pawar. He is a clever politician, and he wants to escape from the clutches of the investigative agencies.

So, he has been putting pressure on Sharad Pawar to join hands with the BJP saying 2024 also will see the BJP winning.

But Pawar said he had taken a political position and he would not compromise with a communal party as his image was that of a secular leader.

Yes, Ajit Pawar leaving the NCP has weakened the NCP in Maharashtra to an extent.

But that is compensated by the kind of support and respect Sharad Pawar commands even today.

When he was betrayed by his own nephew, it became a favourable factor for Sharad Pawar.

Will people forgive Ajit Pawar for betraying his uncle?

What Ajit Pawar did will be considered by the people as stabbing from the back. That has come as an advantage for Sharad Pawar.

Another thing is, Modi's campaign was that the NCP was a corrupt party. Now, all the corrupt people who were chargesheeted by the agencies went to the other side, en bloc.

Pawar said very clearly you have been calling us a corrupt party, but you have taken all the corrupt elements.

So, this time people will see a new Pawar; Pawar as a martyr. And the corrupt image of the party is gone.

In a way, it is a blessing in disguise for the NCP and Sharad Pawar in Maharashtra.

Rahul Gandhi visited him after your national meeting in Delhi. What can you read from the visit?

That Sharad Pawar is still an influential leader in Maharashtra.

It shows the importance all political parties including the Congress is giving to Pawar.

The Congress people in Maharashtra conveyed the message to Rahul Gandhi that Ajit Pawar leaving the party will only indirectly benefit the alliance.

The Congress understands that the NCP-Congress alliance under Sharad Pawar and also Udhav Thakeray only can win in Maharashtra.

Rahul Gandhi and Other opposition parties know that Sharad Pawar did not go with Modi and Shah and has taken a principled stand.

Now, he can play a better role, with more conviction.

Do you think Rahul Gandhi has changed now?

Oh yes. Otherwise, he would not have come to see Pawar.

If Rahul had taken the same interest in 2019, Modi would not have come to power.

I had told Rahul Gandhi then that I did not agree with the party's tactics, and then I resigned.

What do you see in 2024?

It all depends on whether we are able to cobble up a coalition of at least 90% of the opposing parties. Then I am sure the BJP will be defeated.

The Congress will emerge with 125-135 seats and with all the other parties, we can manage the magic figure of 250 or 260 or 270.

Feature Presentation: Aslam Hunani/Rediff.com