The Rediff Interview /T N Seshan
'I do not want the perquisites of office,
I do not want 8,000 telephone calls, petroleum gas connections,
airline reservations...'
Please tell us something about your Desabhakta movement.
What exactly do you want to do by starting the movement?
Regeneration of India. What I want to do can be said only in
three or four parts. Part one, the Gandhian philosophy. In simple
terms, what I want is regeneration of India. But you can't do
everything in one day or one week. So, you give priorities. We
have made a list of a dozen things to do which in our view get
top priority.
Priorities are different in different areas. In
one place, it has to be child mortality, in another it has to
be drinking water, and in another it will be a totally different
problem. So, it has to be left to the local units of the movement
to decide which items should be given top priority for them.
Corruption: Everyone agrees that it has to be routed out.
What about reforms in the education system? The purpose of education
should be to give the child a chance to choose between the right
and the wrong. The education should give a child the courage to
say, this is right and this is wrong overtime he is faced with
such a situation.
In one of your press releases, you had said that you are not
after any position, power or money. But, would you be able to
work as effectively as you want to without all these three?
What position did Gandhiji have? What power did Gandhiji have?
I am not saying I am equal to Gandhiji. One should exercise authority,
moral authority. I'll tell you, however small you may be, if you
come to my room and say, Sir, this is wrong, you will exercise
authority if right is one your side. And, you use politeness.
I don't think all things in life are done on authority.
The authority
you exercise outside power is far more effective and far more
lasting than the authority you exercise within power to achieve
our goal. But we will not allow children to come out of classrooms.
To pull children out of classrooms is a crime. What we want in
classrooms is dharma.
Why didn't you think of starting a political party?
What would it do? Let's assume, step by step. I launch a party,
the Seshan party, then I get elected, and then what happens? There
are 545 more people in the Lok Sabha. If I go as one out of 545
people in the Lok Sabha, how many hours would I get to speak?
The House meets 1,000 days in five years, right? Divide 1,000 by
500. You get two days. All the other days you keep quiet.
Today, I am better off. And, you might permit me to speak about the colour
of the air-hostesses's uniform or something equally important!
How can I improve the country by deciding the colour of the air
hostesses's uniform, by talking two days in five years, tell me.
Then I will file a nomination in the next by-election.
When you start a political party, you will have members.
Don't you think you will be able to perform better and achieve
more then?
There are 550 political parties in the country already. Yours
will be the 551st.
A different political party.
What is the difference? You say you are different and then
go and buy the same wretched brown shirt. You ask any child what
he thinks of today's politicians. What does he say? He is dishonest.
He will make money the wrong way. He will do anything to capture
power. He will do all kinds of things that even my mummy is not
safe from him. So, he might say one more rascal has come. You
kindly do a poll on this, come back and tell me. I may be wrong.
To the younger generation of India, you are like a light at
the end of a dark tunnel.
I am telling you that I have no right to turn that light in
the direction of politics. The same younger people today think
that the very word politician is a dirty word. So, I don't want
to wear that uniform. I do not want the perquisites of office,
I do not want 8,000 telephone calls and petroleum gas connections,
airline reservations, breaking the queue and all that. I don't
need all that.
Do you see a bright future for India?
The question of considering an alternative to that is traitorous
that I won't think about it. Old Poetry. Breathes there the man
with soul so dead,/Who never to himself hath said,/This
is my own, my native land! Even if somebody says my grandmother
has cancer, I am not going to give her up.
Were you very patriotic when you were young also, or the feeling
increased as years went by?
I was exactly the same. Do you find me patriotic now? I was
exactly the same. Am I patriotic? I don't know. I am what I am.
Do you feel very strongly for your country?
I certainly feel strongly for the country. How can you not
feel? I feel strongly for my mother. I feel as strongly for my
country as I feel for my mother.
Did you start the Desabhakta movement because you felt it is
your duty to your country?
Everybody has his own duty. As no other duty is visible to
me now, I do it. Tomorrow if some other duty becomes obvious,
I will drop this and do that duty. But today this is my primary
duty, I feel.
If you do that, don't you think a whole generation might feel
let down?
The country is not on my shoulders. There are 999.9999999 million
other people to do it.
But, you must be aware that after you became the chief election
commissioner, the younger generation looked up to you with hope.
Yes. Even today they do.
They look at you as the leader who can change things for them.
If this is what leadership is, I feel guilty.... No, it is
a bad set of words. Let me say, I am delighted. Leadership means
a whole lot of other things too. It needs vision, it needs purpose,
it needs objective, it needs man management, it needs personal
skill of communication, it needs courage, it needs ability, it
needs strength to take decisions, it needs humility. Have I developed
all of those?
What do you feel very emotional about?
Pain. Injustice. Suffering.
How do you react when you feel emotional?
I cry, nothing else. Cry in the sense, not sit down and make
a noise and bawl, water trickling down the face... very rarely.
You will see water trickling down my face as rarely as you see
a smile on my face.
Do you feel sad when you cannot do anything to alleviate the
pain and suffering that you see around you?
I certainly wish I could do more. I never felt I can do nothing
at all. (Looks at the clock) I am giving you five minutes's deadline
from now.
Is your Desabhakta movement coming up as you expected
it to be?
I had no specific expectations. So, there is nothing I compare
it with. Every moment is different. Sometimes it has gone faster,
sometimes it has gone slower. But there was no specific deadlines
placed saying, I must do this by such and such a date.
But people expect a lot from you.
I am not being impertinent or careless or indifferent when
I say I am not responsible.
For their expectations?
That's what I said. Everybody who is pregnant must expect.
But I am not pregnant.
Once you said, all Palghat brahmins are very good in three
Cs.
No, four Cs. Cooks, crooks, civil servants and
Carnatic music.
Are you a good cook?
I am a very good cook.
What is your specialty?
Any Kerala vegetarian food.
Do you like Carnatic music?
I have an extensive theoretical knowledge of Carnatic music.
I listen to it, identify it.
Is Carnatic music a kind of relaxation for you, or that of
enjoyment?
It is a spiral going inwards. It takes the soul further and
further inwards. Therefore at least the music I love must be heard
at the threshold of audibility, not like modern music which must
be heard at the highest of sounds. I listen to music only if it
is just heard. The music I enjoy best is classical, instrumental
Carnatic.
One last question. Do you have any message for the younger
generation of India?
Keep fighting. Don't yield. While you are students, studies
are the only thing you can do well, and by studies I don't mean
bookish studies, whatever that you want to learn -- photography,
dance, music, art culture, romance. Be sensitive, be patriotic.
Learn the ability to distinguish between right and wrong, and
the courage to speak in favour of the right, one time, every time,
irrespective of consequences. Seek help if you can't distinguish
between right and wrong. If you are a rational human being, 99.9999%
of what you see around can be rationally distinguished, between
right and wrong without external help.
T N Seshan's photographs by Sanjay Ghosh
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