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'...or go to jail.'
'The government is getting them silenced.'
Communist Party of India-Marxist leader Mohammed Yousuf Tarigami, 77, has been a long time watcher of the Kashmir situation.
A legislator from the Kulgam assembly constituency since 1996, Tarigami defeated his Jamaat-e-Islami rival in the current assembly elections.
"Everywhere law and order is a state subject and instead of restoring statehood, police power has been given to the Union government... Even after abrogation of Article 370 the central government is further disempowering the people of Jammu and Kashmir. And they are empowering the unelected people of the Union government," Tarigami tells Syed Firdaus Ashraf/Rediff.com in the concluding segment of the interview.
Mehbooba Mufti has been saying even after elections in Jammu and Kashmir, that real power will be with the lieutenant governor.
On the one hand the BJP says that integration of Jammu and Kashmir has taken place. but then, my question is what about the integration of Indian democracy?
It is not territorial integration as our army and security forces are capable of that.
The question is of integration of the people of J&K with the rest of the country with respect to the rights of democracy.
The Supreme Court of India has given the judgment and it is mentioned in the judgment that statehood of J&K will be restored as the government has assured the court through the solicitor general.
Do the people of Jammu and Kashmir wonder why statehood is not being restored?
Yes, people wonder why statehood is not being restored in the state of Jammu and Kashmir.
For the first time in the Constitutional history of federalism there is no example where a state has been downgraded.
On the other hand a Union Territory has been asking for statehood and not the other way round.
J&K is the only state that has been downgraded to a Union Territory and that too without any consultation with the stakeholders of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh.
In the Supreme Court judgment it is said that the government has assured statehood, and where is that statehood in the last three years after the Supreme Court judgment?
Why is the central government reluctant to restore the statehood of J&K?
You've got to understand the designs of the central government.
What designs?
You look at the designs of this regime before announcing the election date for Jammu and Kashmir, they have further amended the Reorganisation Act. The amended act says that public order will be managed by the lieutenant governor and postings of IPS and IAS will be done by the LG.
In the Union Budget it is mentioned that police budgeting of Jammu and Kashmir will be within the purview of the Union government.
Now, we don't have an assembly to pass the budget so the Union government did that job.
Everywhere law and order is a state subject and instead of restoring statehood, police power has been given to the Union government.
Our countrymen have no idea about all these things.
Even after abrogation of Article 370 the central government is further disempowering the people of Jammu and Kashmir. And they are empowering the unelected people of the Union government.
Do you fear a demography change in Kashmir? Nobody buys land here even after five years, but still fear is evident in minds of the people of Kashmir.
Demography change fear is not only in the minds of the Kashmiri people, but also among the people of Jammu.
It is not because of Article 370 or 35A.
Those provisions (of outsiders not buying land in J&K) have been protected by Maharaja Hari Singh in the 1927 notification because of the agitation of Rajputs in Jammu and Kashmiri Pandits in Kashmir.
They demanded that outsiders must not come and purchase land in Jammu and Kashmir. This was not a demand of Kashmiri Muslims then.
At that time the Rajputs and Kashmiri Pandits also wanted that no outsiders must be employed in the state because it was a very poor state.
These two things were settled by notification in 1927 by the maharaja of J&K which was later incorporated in the Indian Constitution.
Designs are real for changing the demography of J&K.
The central government is undoing what Maharaja Hari Singh did.
It is not Kashmiris Muslims who got this rule against outsiders, but the Dogra ruler who brought the protection of land law rule.
Earlier, Leh demanded Union Territory status and they celebrated for a while when Article 370 was abrogated. After five years the people in Leh have come on the streets to protest stating that the earlier period was better for them as they had protection of jobs and land. Now after abrogation of Article 370 they have no protection of land and job in Leh too.
You are from a Communist party in a Muslim majority state. Is it difficult to explain Communism which does not believe in God to Muslims?
No. There is a Communist party in the rest of the country too.
The Communist Party of India-Marxist is not an anti-Muslim party. If you go through the pages of history you will find Muslim countries like Iraq and Indonesia had Communist parties. Even in Pakistan, they had a Communist party.
This has been propagated and confusion created among the masses against the Communist party.
Faith has to be put in a different category as s/he is entitled to their faith, and don't mix it with politics.
This applies to Hindu society too as they are being wooed in the name of Hindu religion for votes and denial of minority rights.
It is not good for the country.
If faith and politics are mixed, then it does not suit the larger interests of the people. Be it this faith or that faith.
South Kashmir is silent on terrorism. This was the region which had seen a peak in terror cases in the last five years. Do you feel all that is in the past now?
We have been victims of violence.
Our youth got killed, whether this side or that side. And what have we achieved by bloodshed?
Whether it is the gun of security forces or militants, the victims are Kashmiris.
And terrorism was not confined to South Kashmir only.
In the '90s it was Srinagar where terrorism was huge and then it shifted to Baramulla in North Kashmir and then South Kashmir.
My point is, what is the solution?
You win over the people.
The state and government must allow measures to win hearts.
You cannot get silence by putting guns on the ground, as silence is there in graveyards too.
Silence is unacceptable.
Forced silence does not mean there is peace in Kashmir.
Peace means there has to be active participation.
Give youth a chance as they do not want to die or go to jail.
They see the sufferings of the Kashmiri people, and the government rather than (building bridges with youth) is getting them silenced.
This is what Jammu experienced and very sad incidents happened where our army people got killed.
Don't claim everything is calm in J&K.
The government will tell you that because of external forces there is no peace, but who is providing them space?
So you need to kill that space and win over the people of Jammu and Kashmir.
Gun is no answer to gun.
Our party leader and the late chief minister of West Bengal, Jyoti Basu, won over the Gorkha separatist movement and settled that issue permanently.
It was a historic moment. There was a huge agitation and violence, Basu spoke to them and met their aspirations within the limits of law.
Why couldn't you win over the youth?
I was not holding any power.
We discussed issues with different parties.
We lost many of our comrades.
All of us have suffered, whether this shade or that shade.
Maulana Masoodi (87) was breathing the last breath of his life and he was killed.
The same way vice chancellors of J&K University were killed.
Religious leaders too were killed.
That is why I am asking this question to Jamaat-e-Islami leaders who are contesting elections today.
You have been advocating jihad against the Indian State till yesterday and today you are contesting elections.
How has your mind changed? Explain this to the people of Kashmir who have suffered.
This is the least one can demand from them.