'Any good story should hurt corrupt people'

'If no middlemen exist, how come we see them crawling out on film?'

Jaya Jaitly says Jain is a mere party sympathiser... and Surendra Sulekha, a textile trader [and both] happen to know her.

Jain didn't take us to her. Sulekha and S P Murgai (retired major general) took us. Jaya Jaitly can say anything now. Arun Jaitley will defend her, he is a smooth lawyer. M J Akbar wrote that Jaitley would manage the material and create confusion. That's what they do for a living.

Bangaru is considered foolish by partymen, so he is exonerated. Jaya Jaitly is wonderful, so she is not involved. People must note that Bangaru not just took Rs 1 lakh -- unfortunately it's on tape that he asked for 30,000 dollars more. We asked, 'Do you want rupees?' He said, 'I want dollars.' That's on tape. The next day he waits for the dollars, my guy goes again to meet him, Bangaru is waiting for the dollars. What is this, yaar? It's the height of stone-walling.

What would have happened if this story was just a print media story?

Politicians are indifferent to any allegations. With such a graphic video they are still denying the story.

What do you want?

I think the guys should be nailed. Look at the army. They are brilliant. The court of inquiry is of a quality. Retired senior generals have complimented us. They are seeing this as an opportunity to clean up the system. And look at the politicians! They say we want the prime minister to resign... the defence minister to resign, there is no question. Those who have been indicted should be acted upon. The government must recognise that this story highlights the problem, instead of making these mad assumptions and putting motives.

Are you sure that you were not taken for a ride during the story?

By whom? This is bunkum. This is our story. Suppose we had exposed [a deal] in agriculture, then they would have said that the agriculture lobby is at work. The government must accept that there is a problem and deal with it. Do we say we don't have fixers? We don't. All we have set out to do is to show that the defence procurement system is very porous and national defence can be easily compromised if anybody has the bloody money to do so.

As a journalist now, are you very sure that the defence minister was corrupt?

George? I have no way of knowing, but what I know is that he is presiding over an extremely porous and compromised system. If generals take money for defence deals, if bureaucrats take money for defence deals... somebody must be made accountable.

For me the biggest dope against George Fernandes is that defence dealers could walk into the sanctum of the defence minister's home and talk about defence deals. In Bangaru's case, he says Brajesh Mishra will do it for me, he is the guy who does it for me.

[Screams] Look at the tapes! Give me $5000 more, he says. What do you want to see? The actual transaction of the Bofors gun? He is talking about the defence deal and then taking money, still you think he is not linked to defence deals?

I think we had pushed ourselves to the limit, whether in terms of money or time. I don't think we could have done more. If this is not good enough, this is not good enough.

He [George Fernandes] says he is too simple a man and does not keep much security.

In that case a simple man should not run the defence ministry. We are talking about defence security, wake up! It's a question of our defence preparedness.

He claimed at a public meeting that he doesn't even own a house!

Wonderful, ya. How do you know he does not own $100 million in a Swiss account? Don't go by his claims. This man has always done that. What else do you expect him to claim?

From Laloo to Chandra Shekhar, has anybody told us that he is not good, clean and nationalistic? This public relations journalism has destroyed the credibility of journalism in the last 10 years. Why don't people take journalism seriously anymore? At the end of the '90s, every single senior journalist in India could be identified with either a political party or a business house. Isn't that worrying for Indian journalism?

If you are saying that the Jains and Guptas are lalas, and if they are screwing up the defence system -- then they should be nailed.

The accused claim that they are at the lower end.

No, they are not at the lower-end. They get deals done. They are making hundreds of crores. They push things through, don't be dismissive [about them]. The guy at the lower end is the poor soldier who gets a few thousand rupees and gets screwed in Siachen and the Thar desert.

These guys are pretty all right boss, don't call them lower ranks. They have access to everybody, they push and cut deals and make serious money. That is the perversity of the whole picture.

What reactions have you received personally?

Staggering. Anybody who has a non-partisan interest has appreciated it. Except for the ruling NDA, and journalists close to them, reactions have been phenomenal. We have received thousands of e-mails, hits have increased tenfold and people are reacting in the most amazing ways. We have received hundreds and hundreds of phone calls from around the world. People are calling up and saying, "Thank you very much. You have restored our faith in India and in a new generation. We are behind you." But I expected more from the prime minister.

Are you afraid the government might fix you?

No, I am not afraid. I know I have to run a very clean company, I have to guard my flank. I have to clean up my own act. One of the things this will start is that it will clean up journalism. You can't ask for good governance, if you have skeletons in your backyard. Before we broke the story we didn't speak to any lawyers or accountants. I was absolutely convinced that the story is in the public interest and I had no fear. I was prepared to sink the company to break this story.

Once the story was ready, I broke the story. Look what they would have done if it had leaked out. I strongly believe the story must reach the public domain; once it reaches there it can be dealt with. We write for the public, not for the government or lobbies.

Why Tehelka? It has such a non-serious connotation?

Just like that. It sounded good.

How much has a medium like the Internet helped?

It has got the reach and speed, which is exciting. As far as journalism is concerned, there is good and bad journalism. It has nothing to do with the medium. Good journalism is media unspecific.

What effect has this had on you?

The biggest thing it has done is restore my faith in journalism. I had also forgotten how powerful it could be. In the last 10 days, more than 50 journalists have come to my office and told me: "Today I feel proud to be a journalist again."

Otherwise it's humbling because of the goodwill it has brought. It has triggered so many emotions in so many people. It's great. Lots of old people called up and said, "Son, God bless you. You have done a good job."

I think this story has struck a chord in people. With every passing day the people in power will see the truth in the story.

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