'Those INS officers wouldn't have dared to do the same to the Chinese'
THE UNWELCOME INDIAN
Message Board views are edited slightly
Name: Sri
Email: sri41@usa.net
Message: Racism is quite visible in US,
mostly latent. The white guys
here don't realize the importance of Indians. No matter what legislation they have, they won't give up racism. Indian government should deal strongly with the US, the UK or any other Western nation
when it comes to issues like racism.
Well, the majority of Indians in the hitech sector are highly talented, there are some elements who engage in fraudulent visa practices, which is blemishing the image of the whole Indian population in general. I am not justifying the attitude of the INS, which clearly acted in a racist way in the case of 40 Indian H1s in Texas. Indian government should take up this issue seriously.
Hoping for the best
Name: Prashant Pimpalekar
Email: pkprashant@yahoo.com
Message: Yes, there is racism, might be latent, might be overt, but IT IS THERE in the USA(..& I am afraid, in every part of the world!)
America is not a land of freedom & all that stuff,.. it is the biggest hypocrite! Since the episode of Randolph air-base,Texas (27 Indian Hi-B visa holders arrested/ill-treated), I am losing all my faith in this so-called democratic country! We (Indian govt)need to act tough, talk tough, else the whole world will treat us, Indians & NRIs in undignified manner! I am sure, those INS officers (Randolph air-base) wouldn't have dared to do the same with Chinese!! Ultimately, it boils down to the jungle law, 'might is right'!!!
Name: The Victim
Email: h1bvictims@yahoo.com
Message: INS Raid-From The Victim
About me:
Hailed from a respectable family from India.
No criminal record in India.
Finished Bachelors of Engineering in India and
Master's degree
in Computer science
Staying in US for last 7 years and well aware of the
immigration laws
in
US.
Never been out of status.
No criminal record in America EITHER.
Hired by a company in Houston
Changed status to H1B.
So no out of status here either.
Hired by another consulting company in Houston,
Texas,
USA.
Started working for that company immediately after
transferring H1B.
So NO OUT OF STATUS here either.
As a part of consulting career , got assignment at
Randolph Air Force
Base in San Antonio, Texas.
and moved to San Antonio.
The Job:
Started working for the Military Modernization
project
which is a
prestigious project for the whole United States Air
Force community
because it deals with their day to day activity as
well as their family
history. What not, it deals with every Air Force
personnel life
time history.
Proud to be part of such a project. Been working
happily for 2 1/12
years.
There was an INS raid exactly a year ago, picked up
some personnel for
questioning in a decent manner. Found a guy with
some
discrepancies with paper work. Didn't care much
because
I've never been
out of status and having all the valid documents.
Nothing happened for another year.
No Y2K bugs anywhere in the world esp. in US.
Totally
bug free in the
US.
There comes another INS raid at US Air Force Base.
The day of INS Raid:
Started working at 7:30 AM as usual.
Around 9:30 AM or so, there comes our Lt. Col asking
us to come (message incomplete -- editor)
Name: Anand Arumugam
Email: caax@hotmail.com
Message: This only shows the high-handedness of the INS. Why have they arrested the employees instead of the employer? It is ridiculous to see the Indian professionals being handcuffed. Indians go to other countries because it provides good environment, technology and also money. The best of software talent lies with the Indians. Indians are hardworking, intelligent and also devoted to their job. US, UK or any other country for that matter have their own reasons for allowing Indians to enter their land. Once they allow they should also know how to treat the immigrants. I think the Indian Govt should strongly react to such issues. Everyone talks about New Millennium, diminishing national boundaries, global economy , Internet etc. but not all of them have understood how to treat a fellow human being.
Name: shiv kumar
Email: shiva.k@xtra.co.nz
Message: The image of the Indian in a white country is at a very low ebb. Partly we Indians are ourselves responsible because we are always looking for ways to circumvent a system. The tragedy is that thanks to this unscrupulousness, even genuine Indians are looked at with suspicion.
Our Govt. is also at fault for doing nothing to improve our image abroad. What do our consulates and high commissions abroad do towards improving our image? Surely a country with billion people and some historic achievements should enjoy a better standing in the world.
I think its a real shame that Britain is considering this visa bond proposal. Have Indians become so unreliable in the eyes of these developed nations? It's little wonder that these days immigrant Indians find it almost impossible to get decent jobs in these countries.
Will things ever improve?
Name: DB
Email: dickb_61@hotmail.com
Message: There are several countries where Indians are discriminated against. One can sometimes definitely feel the undercurrents of racial hatred in the U.S., U.K., Australia and Canada.
Some countries like Saudi Arabia, through agents and other means, openly select people based on their religion from here! It was easy to find employment advertisements in leading dailies, with the notice "Muslims and Christians only need apply".
It is shocking how the Indian government meekly surrenders its sovereign values of secularism et al, to aliens with economic might.
I feel the Indian Government is rightly perceived as being spineless. The foreign ministry officials are absorbed in their own bureaucratic and self-serving world.
It is high time that these officials be proactive and concerned about the hardships their fellow Indians encounter abroad. The foreign ministries should shake off their lethargy and be alert putting redressal mechanisms in place without delay at all our foreign missions.
The U.S. and U.K. consulates themselves set an example in taking care of their (especially white!) citizens.
Name: R V.JAYANTHI
Email: rvjayanthi@hotmail.com
Message:Yes, the Government never takes up for its citizens as strongly as other countries. The concept of fate, karma and a laid back attitude is the cause of this. Added to this is a lack of National identity. We are always worried about being labelled communal if we hold up our heads and say we are Hindus. We water down our identity by making pusillanimous pseudo-secular statements. This takes away from any strong stand we try to take. See what happened in the hijack case, if even a single US are British citizen was on the flight we would have seen a totally different outcome. Add to this the way our Indians stick to themselves without integrating into the mainstream of any country they happen to inhabit. The guilt of their opulence compared to their middle class status here coupled with their inability to ever come back, makes them stick to a lot of weird rituals and makes them keep away from the general milieu. This could be another reason. When we have the following three things nobody will dare to insult us.
1 National identity & Pride-a result of uncorrupt politicians and uniform laws for everybody
2. Military might
3. A highly educated and committed citizenry
Name: Sanjay
Email: Sanjaygoa@hotmail.com
Message: We are in the habit of blaming other people for racial discrimination. Look at ourselves in India. We still use religion, language, caste, social status, and what not to make differences between our own Indian mates.
Should we live in these glass houses and still pelt stone at others? How about refining our system first?
I have lived in the UK for 4 years and I have personally never felt any overt racism to exist in this society, though I hear of many such reports. My view is to treat these as personal idiosyncracies of local people rather than a racist society.
All sorts of perverted and mentally deranged people exist in every society and it is unfair to blame the whole community for their deeds.
A 10,000 pound fee for immigration application shall imply that only the wealthy Indians will be able to immigrate. It will serve no other definite purpose
Name: c sachidev kumr
Email: s achidev@onebox.com
Message: I feel that when we go overseas on assignments we must go on our right as a professional, first. Any short cut or compromising approaches to this will definitely become public one day or the other and therefore, the whole professional community will be looked at in a myopic way. Take the case of the many chaps who came with false certificates. Such things lower our rating very badly. Therefore, the countries are trying to place blocks, which on the face of it may look preposterous. At the same time racism should be taken as a matter of fact. It is natural that even when Pilots and Airhostesses who work to the clock and tire out, sometimes, do not get sometimes half as much as an IT pro at the junior levels, human instincts are bound to be kindled. Let the IT community set itself standards of operating - genuineness of education, experience and skills and good references. Then call the shots. Then see the difference in impact of overt racism on us.
As for the Govt. it has never had any principles to fight for rights of humans in our land, what to talk of those who have left the land.
Immigrants must realise that it is not possible to mix water, milk and oil in the same vessel and except a good cocktail. It never will happen. When in Rome be a Roman or come back to India and be an Indian.
In the near future, we will find India the best place to work and all these charlies will be at our door trying to get the work done? The sooner the Indian community realises and makes it happen, better for all.
Name: RAJANKASTURI
Email: RAJANKASTURI@REDIFFMAIL.COM
Message: We are second to none as far as our dedication and integrity in every walk of life, as our basic culture is that. Hence it is absolutely necessary for our government to make it clear to all the concerned that they will not tolerate he insult meted out to our brethren in any part of the world.
Name: nagraj
Email: nagraj@ureach.com
Message: It is true that racism is on the rise in many countries. More than those countries, I would blame the shameless Indian. Immigrants or not. See how much of reaction is there in the US for the wretched INS raid. Everybody is keeping a death of silence on the matter and some have even blamed poor Indian victims for what happened. These nutheads keep blabbering this kind of things till they are also handcuffed and paraded simply because they are here. I find it disgusting.
Name: sumantra sen
Email: sumantra_sen@yahoo.com
Message: One thing that has always remained consistent for India has been its inability to speak up for its citizens abroad, whether it is the US, the UK or the Middle East. every govt that has been in power has always been found wanting in this regard. When the govt itself does not take pride in defending its own people (the way Indian embassies abroad behave with its own, as compared to the way the other countries do) how would you expect a foreign power do behave better?
Name: posei
Email: posei_2000
Message: The recent arrest of 40 Indians in San Antonio is an example of this overt racism. Please do not blame the Indian government , they are least bothered about any Indian, since they cannot receive any political mileage , why bother. In order to respond to some cranky Indians, they make a token protest with the US state department. And then the whole issue vanishes in thin air. Look at our media coverage, so poor and lukewarm response to this whole issues. No updates whatsoever . The US media is currently giving great importance to the Nov-25 episode of the illegal Cuban immigrants, all of them were fleeing CUBA. And now the boy is under the US custody and some consider giving US citizenship . Our fellow country men in San Antonio were in a correctional facility for a night and now we don't know what is the status of these Indians? Most of the time, we break our heads over these 11 Indians in our cricket
Name: Ramkayes
Email: ramkayes@hotmail.com
Message: We Indians have been used to taking bullshit from times immemorial, we haven't learnt anything from our history. The Muslim rulers, the British -- we just let everyone to plunder our country. Before we realized what we were losing, it was too late. I quoted the above example just to show that we Indians are used to taking crap from everyone, thinking that we were destined to take it. Unless we build own image as a strong community with a voice that can heard we should be prepared to take more bullshit. Image is everything in this modern global village. I don't think INS could have isolated Italians or Jews or even Chinese for that matter because they know that those communities are not easy/soft targets. Think about it. We need a facelift.
Name: debu
Email: debjitdc@yahoo.com
Message: I think the foreign govt are adopting the "better safe than sorry" attitude. unfortunately, they are in a position to do so. Although Indians are contributing to their success, honestly speaking there are enough Chinese, Taiwanese and other cultures who can do so equally well. hence the governments are in a position to pick and choose.
Indians are also to blame. I know of enough Indians who have tarnished our reputation abroad. plus you have the thousands of illegal immigrants. how come we don't hear of such shameful stories from the Chinese.
I guess the foreign govts are right by adopting a "preventive" attitude. It's better than a complete no-no approach which would make things difficult for the real travellers.
It's a price we have to pay for a few of our "not-so-honest" brethren.
Name: Arvind
Email: ak@yahoo.com
Message: Heck, Indians of the kind you refer to in the US (like me) are unwelcome in India. That's why we're all here. If you are a so-called "upper caste Hindu", you're screwed unless your father happens to be a politician or industrialist. Fifty plus years of trying to "redistribute" wealth before creating it have created the diaspora we now have.
Indian immigrants to the US do not evoke "strong emotions". If you want to evoke really strong emotions try being Black, Haitian, Hispanic, Japanese, Chinese or African. Indians in certain activities such as retailing receive the brunt of the hate--but it's no less no more than the Koreans endure in LA. Chicanos in East LA hate Cambodians because they're convinced the US government gives them money for nothing(!!). Among tribesmen in Wasau Wisconsin get rough treatment because there are simply too many of them in a small town.
As for being Indian (if you're educated. competent and articulate), one faces less discrimination in the US than in India.
The Brits are another story. I lived there for 5 years before I came here--they are an impenetrable society and the cards are stacked against everyone -- Cockneys, Scots, Welsh, Irish, foreigners of all kinds including Indians. Sick place.
Name: Sanjeev Srivastava
Email: sanjeev@auroraworldwide.com
Message: As an Indian living in the US for the past 13 years I have to say that most of us living here are accepted by the society at large without any resentment.
The official agencies such as the INS or the British immigration services sometimes act in seemingly racist and biased fashion because of their stereotyping of ethnic groups or racial profiling.
It is almost a truism that in the white dominated world, people of colour will have to fight institutional racism than from individuals.
Racism is a complex issue but there are certain attributes which can be assigned to it:
1. It is institution driven.
2. Economic conditions are the seeds of racism. For example in the US blacks form the poorest section of the society and thus are the most discriminated.
3. Cultural and religious differences. Caste system in India is a good example.
4. Lack of political strength nurtures institutional racism.
The Indian government is not strong enough to have leverage with the British or US or any other European govt's to make its voice heard. Mainly because we are a poor nation.
Except for the fact that Indian communities carry their disorderliness which hurts the Anglo-Saxon sensibilities, we do not evoke any strong feelings. We are considered law abiding, keep-our-head-down variety, meek citizens of our adopted lands.
Name: poseidon
Email: posei_2000@yahoo.com
Message:
The recent arrest of 40 Indians in San Antonio is an example of this overt racism. Please do not blame the Indian government , they are least bothered about any Indian, since they cannot receive any political mileage , why bother. In order to respond to some cranky Indians, they make a token protest with the US state department. And then the whole issue vanishes in thin air. Look at our media coverage , so poor and lukewarm response to this whole issues. No updates whatsoever . The US media is currently giving great importance to the Nov-25 episode of the illegal Cuban immigrants , all of them were fleeing CUBA. And now the boy is under the US custody and some consider giving US citizenship . Our fellow country men in San Antonio were in a correctional facility for a night and now we don't know what is the status of these Indians? Most of the time, we break our heads over these 11 Indians in our cricket team and our media jumping from country to country to get the coverage and pages and pages of web site for these 11 guys. Forget about the US media, Indian government , what is the Indian Media doing ? I guess these news do not carry any commercial or political value ? or is it because 40 is a paltry some when compared to a billion ? I don't even know these 40 people but what I know is they are Indians !
poseidon
Name: swami
Email: swami2000@hotmail.com
Message:NOPE... Why blame immigrants.. what wrong they have done ? it is the govt which is responsible for all these racial discrimination.
They dont have a proper strategy planned to internationalise these issues.
Try touching any immigrant in India (of course there may not be any proper immigrants )then see what happens....!!!
I THINK WE ALL SHOULD REACT TO THIS ... so Dude's act fast.....
Name: Rajesh Sarin
Email: sarinrajesh@hotmail.com
Message: I think the government really cant do much about this. The Indian Community abroad may like to look at themselves first. What is it in an Indian that annoys them? I have spent some time abroad and let me assure we too are partially to blame. I think we need to merge more with their cultures to start with.
Name: Anil
Email: anilg@rediff.co.in
Message: My personal experience has been that Indians are a terribly confused lot.While in India we are obsessed with the west when abroad most Indians refuse to adopt western culture.Bargaining like hell , prospecting for Amway, picking up unnecessary freebies ,returning items after the trial period, being loud in public, mixing sports shoes with formal wear, and worst of all refusing to follow the American way of pronunciation.
We give the Americans a lot of reasons to be conscious about the fact that we are different. Following the 'When in Rome do as Romans do' is a principle which Indians abroad see as a threat to their Indianness, something the same people disregard entirely when in India.
The Indians who are the toast of the towns are the ones who've embraced the land. Few and far more successful.
Name: Pradeep Sharma
Email: pradeep907@hotmail.com
Message: We have ourselves to blame and nobody else. Jayalalitha(ji) gets prison term (with option of appeal open)and her supporters kill three innocent girls within hours of judgement. On the other hand 40 programmers are handcuffed and arrested, nobody raises any voice. Also the Mai-baap culture is so deep down the psychic, that our behaviour abroad is many times laughable.
But in my opinion as far as US is concerned, the majority of people going there, are software people. The reaction of the whole software community regarding the Texas affair will determine the kind of treatment we are going to get in future there.
Name: Srinivasan
Email: gnsri@rediff.com
Message:The blame falls squarely on the Indian government. The Indian government do not protect its own citizens in their own country. The babus who are posted in indian missions abroad behave as though they are a privileged breed and are there to enjoy their time. The Netas do not care for the common man. Go to any Indian mission as a normal Indian without connection and money and you can feel the despise with which you are treated with. The only solution is to make the entire public service as a temporary or term based service which is not renewable and hence every babu will become a common man without any government help like pension etc at the end of his term. then only they will realise the hardships that is being suffered at the hands of the so called public servants. Just take the case of Purulia arms drop case. Russia has immediately expressed concern at her citizens being sentenced. How many Indians are there in jails in the West Asian countries? How many have been sentenced to death or long imprisonment and what the Indian Government has done? Nothing. We have to change the system and make all public services as a term based and mandatory duty of its citizens. Then only it is possible to improve the situation.
Name: Mallika Chellappa
Email: mchellappa@rediffmail.com
Message: I think we Indians are the
salt of the earth, individually
and collectively. It is just
that we have certain
habits that far outweigh
our good points when
you think about us as
a group:
1. Indians believe in personal
cleanliness and public cleanliness
be damned. Very few indians
will look at a toilet bowl
at all, let alone ascertain
whether it is ready for the
next user, far less do anything
about it.
2. Some Indians are not aware
of their BO, nor do they
attempt to do anything about it,
if they are. Hence they can
be overpowering at close
quarters.
As far as racism is concerned
we Indians should be careful
whom we point at - There is the
famous North-South divide
in our own country, there is
outright caste-based discrimination
all over the country, and there
is discrimination based on
skin colour even within a
single family unit! However,
in the large, it is true that
we Indians are more or less
colour-blind.
Name: gdilip
Email: gdilip@rediffmail.com
Message: Why can't we have a safe & prosperous haven for Indians in India?
Do we have to drag our carcass half-way across the globe to make it in life?
Over to the political community!
Name:
Email: kali_51@yahoo.com
Message: HAd it been racism , why doesn't the same hold true in the case of say Chinese? There is a grudging admiration in spite of many acts of flaunting the general relationships openly. I guess the reasons are
a. The Indian themselves who are not strong enough to stand for their rights in whatever share
b. The attitude of falling backwards to fulfill the wishes of any "white skin" a fall back from the British rule days
Might is right , and the might is not in acquiring an atom bomb, but confidence in self and one's attitude
Name: sk
Email: sk@geind.GE.com
Message: If you consider only the case of British in some way they stand correct. As you may see over the years Indians have gone there as tourist and some how through the relatives tried to get visa to settle down. More over Indian Embassy there is also responsible for this matter.
Name: Vanchy
Email: vanchyiyer@hotmail.com
Message:Why do we have to talk about the problems of Indians abroad. dont we have enough on our heads here. Overt or covert racism, I am a king in my land, why should we go to another country and speak of the ill treatment there. What are we doing to our people, isn't there enough sectarian and casteist thinking , a new kind of racism.
Name: Hareesh
Email: Har@ind.com
Message: We can no more fool the British to stay there in number not matched by any other nation.
Name: Hareesh
Email: Har@ind.com
Message: We can no more fool the British to stay there in number not matched by any other nation.
Name: Bhai Balbir Singh
Email: monpri@vsnl.com
Message: It should be opposed
Name: An Indian
Email: sdk2000@yahoo.com
Message:
It's not only the government that is pussyfooting
the interests if its citizens - We ourselves are
equally to blame!
Wheever we go out in the world - we hardly educate
ourselves! And yet, when it comes to interacting with
the local people, we do give impression that we never bother
about out national pride, about our fellow indians et all!
All said and done, in US or UK, media people or citizens hardly
criticise their government or people in front of foreigners.
What do we do? Why do we give them a chance to think that whether in india
or away, we are individuals first and citizens never!
-An Indian
Name: sam
Email: samsondhi@hotmail.com
Message: End of the day we are not white and there is a big cultural gap.
Every new community that migrates to USA in hordes is resented. For instance the Germans were not liked after WWII. Russians are rebuked now (see them run down in any American movie).
The Indians too are making their presence felt. Indian movies, temples, curry -- its all coming there.
The American attitude towards Indians is that of what they dish out to every community that migrates to the "country of immigrants"
Name: MKC
Email: m.chaudhury@worldnet.att.net
Message: The problem that the Indians
face today is similar is what
the Jews faced before. The
western world would like to
believe that they are superior
to the Indians (and the blacks).
They express their frustration
when they face the reality.
Indians, however, compound the
problem by their inarticulate
mannerism. Some Indians even
take the extra step to prove
that they are doing better
than others.
If you want to overcome
racism, you must erase racism
from your own mind. Indians
openly make racist remarks
about the blacks and other ethnic
groups. Ironically, it hurts
when the whites treat us like the
blacks.
Nonetheless, we must learn
to survive and to live with
dignity. There is no point in
crying like babies. We must retaliate
with strength through proper
legal means.
Name: gopinathapai
Email: gopinathapai@rediffmail.com
Message: it is nothing but the hatred latent in the blood deposited for generations. India should
do the needful and see that discrimination is not shown in any field.
Name: Biju Suseel
Email: bsuseel@email.com
Message: One thing is Indian Government was always run by wimps. They are keen to impress the White Guy than stand up for their own citizens. In India, the police can't even arrest a foreigner after he drops offensive weapons over its territory. The leaders in India like to bend over backwards to impress some jerk from Paris or Tokyo than ever standing up for its people.
There are always passive racism towards Indians everywhere. This can even be termed as friendly fire. Most times Indians don't even stand up for their basic rights, or speak up. Indians are termed as short dark guys, who can never defend himself during a challenge.
The only escape is make a lot of money, bribe all politicians in the west, and kick a lot of western ass hard. Once you leave them with a bloody nose, they start some respect. GOI should stop their western appeal policies, start testing some good A-bombs over the Indian ocean, and start kicking some ass!
JAI HIND,
BJ
Name: sAP
Email: asternetworth@technologist.com
Message: A strong English speaking population and computer literacy contributed towards India being recognised by the first world countries on the global map. Where the need for professionals has not overcome the reputation over the years, it is still likely nations would not want Indian immigrants pouring into their countries unless there is some measure of "pedigree" guarantee. Though this cannot be judged by networth of individuals, yet there seems no system in existence that can better this.
It's been said over and again a million times over. Quality speaks for itself. Or against itself as shown on TV. For a start, paint a better picture of this country on the international audience. Things might change... but then maybe not.
Name: Niel
Email: forwd_mails@yahoo.com
Message: I think Indians should stop going to Europe. Since there are bunch of Indians who want to go there, Europe has raised the fee. I think is totally depends on Europe gov't about charges. If you can't pay then don't go and if you can then go right ahead.
Name: Indraneel Ghosh
Email: indraneelg@rediffmail.com
Message: During my recent visit to the US one thing was very apparent. Though these whites want to do business with you and will sweet talk with you when you want to invest money. But when it comes to them recruiting Indians to do some jobs, they would rather be comfortable with their own race.
Some guys are more forthright in their opinion that they do not want Indians on their soil, while others bear a grudge but would not want to speak it out. But given a chance, they would always give more preference to their own race.
The fact of recruiting Indians in the IT sector is so pronounced because of the lack of skilled IT manpower in their country. If the same numbers were available in US, they would be more comfortable with whites and even compensate their level of technical competence.
So while there is a lot of enthusiasm on their part to get their business done through Indians in the IT field, given a chance, they would not hesitate to get the job done by whites instead.
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