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The Rediff Interview/Vaiko

'When my chief minister gives everything on a platter to Karnataka, compromising the interests of Tamil Nadu, how can I find fault with the prime minister?'

The Cauvery issue, which has been troubling both Tamil Nadu and Karntaka for a long time has now been solved and the new accord has been hailed as a victory for both the states and the prime minister. The people of Tamil Nadu also are happy because finally an end has come to the problem. Why is it that your front leader opposes it even though it is good for the state?

The point is, on Cauvery, Karunanidhi once again betrayed the interest of the people of Tamil Nadu.

Why do you feel that way?

I strongly feel that way and it is the fact. In 1972, it was Karunanidhi who went to the Supreme Court when there was every possibility of getting water for Tamil Nadu. There was a unanimous decision to in the all-party meeting in the year 1995 that there would not be any further dialogue or negotiation or talks with Karnataka at any cost.

We decided then that the interim award should be implemented by the central government. But after six months, when Karunanidhi assumed office, he voluntarily gave a statement to the press that the Cauvery issue could be negotiated with Karnataka. I am asking, did he get the mandate from the people to have talks with Karnataka? Did he convene an all-party meeting? What he wanted was, he wanted his nephew (Maran) to be very safe in H D Deve Gowda's Cabinet...

Now in the name of consensus, veto power has been given to Karnataka also. So, if Karnataka does not agree, the authority has no power. The name authority itself is a misnomer. Now Karunanidhi has misled the people of Tamil Nadu that he has achieved something.

I don't want to criticise the prime minister. When my chief minister goes and gives everything on a platter to Karnataka, compromising the interests of the people of Tamil Nadu, how could I find fault with the prime minister?

My accusation is that Karunanidhi once again betrayed the people of Tamil Nadu. People of this state are tired and when they were told that Karnataka has agreed, they heaved a sigh of relief. But when they will come to know that Karnataka will not release water, they will understand why the AIADMK front has levelled accusations. Only then will the people realise what has actually happened.

Did you tell the prime minister of your apprehensions?

We said earlier itself that the scheme should be very clear. At the same time, we never expected that Karunanidhi would compromise like this. We knew, if he went there, he would compromise. That is why we didn't want him to go. Without consulting any of the political parties, he agreed. But J H Patel brought all the political parties to Delhi and had consultations with them in Delhi.

Is it not high time India's rivers are nationalised? It is quite evident that political parties are interested only in politicising issues.

I agree with you. You are hundred per cent correct. We have also taken a position that all rivers should be nationalised. Our spokesperson, an advocate in the high court, has filed a writ petition and he has got a judgment too. Now he has filed a writ petition in the Supreme Court.

Are the politicians not guilty of politicising such an issue?

It is the duty of the politicians to politicise issues. I can't blame politicians, being a politician.

But when the issue concerns the betterment of the state, should the politicians not forget their differences and support it?

Yes, it is true that a statesman should rise above petty considerations. At the same time, nobody should compromise the basic interests of the state just to gain pecuniary benefits of ministerial posts and other things. If something helps his family, Karunanidhi does that.

Recently when I interviewed Congress leader A K Antony, he admitted that political parties oppose each other on all issues. But he said he has decided to support and applaud the good decisions taken by the LDF government in Kerala if they were beneficial to the state.

Let Antony tell us the name of at least one political party, which rises above political considerations.

He said he was going to do that in Kerala...

He can do it as an individual. My question is, which political party is doing that? They talk about nationalism. But in the case of Mullaperiyar, they are arrogant jingoists.

Moopanaris talking about bringing Kamaraj rule back to Tamil Nadu...

Moopanar is the most confused man in the state. The parliamentary election debacle was a rude shock for him. A man who was projected as prime minister-designate, chief minister designate, one fine morning announces that if Sonia invites me, I will join the Congress. The TMC is finished at that moment. That has killed the spirit of the party people.

Do you expect all the Congressmen who had left the party earlier to rejoin now and do you foresee two fronts, the BJP and the Congress emerging in future?

There are people like P Chidambaram who do not want to go with the Congress. They want to keep the identity of the TMC. But there are others who want to go back to the Congress headed by Sonia. People like Mani Shankar Aiyar and others do not tolerate the entry of Moopanar and Chidambaram. Now they are close to Sonia Gandhi. Under these circumstances, Moopanar finds himself in a dilemma.

Moopanar wants Kamaraj rule in the state. It clearly shows he is drifting away from the DMK. Karunanidhi also is talking about going to the polls alone. What kind of realignment of parties is going to take place now?

Only on the eve of elections will new permutations and combinations take place. We can't predict anything now. Before March, nobody expected our front to emerge.

In this era of coalition governments, regional parties have become very prominent in the central government but even now their outlook is only regional and not national.

There is nothing wrong in it. Throughout the world, it happens. Regionalism is an admitted fact. That is why Tony Blair has given recognition to the Welsh people and Scottish people. That shows the trend. Every nationality, every ethnic race will try to have its identity intact. In Soviet Russia, they tried to bulldoze it but the volcano erupted one day. So, the country fragmented into fifteen pieces.

Will it happen in India too? We have problems in the north-east, the north, and almost everywhere. That is why I asked, will the rise of regionalism result in the disintegration of the country?

In order to prevent any such disaster happening here, we are advocating the idea of autonomy. The concept is to give equal status to all states, regions, civilisations, languages and cultures. This principle has to be accepted by all. Only then will the unity of the country be protected. We are for a united India, we are for an integrated India where all the states are given equal status. Our party, the MDMK is totally committed to this principle.

You said you want autonomy for all states. What kind of government would you like to have at the Centre?

That is why we want to review the Constitution. The Constitution was drafted in a jubilant mood when the British flag was pulled down. Now much water has flowed under the bridge, times have changed, the atmosphere has changed, an therefore we feel the time has come to review the Constitution. We need a strong central government, for that we need strong state governments too.

Are you for a presidential form of government?

It has to be debated. We don't shut our doors on the discussion. It cannot be ruled out, it is a matter to be debated. There are plus-points and minus points and only after debates, we will be able to come to a conclusion. I don't say the presidential form of government is preferable, I don't say it is not to be accepted, it has to be openly debated.

The Rediff Interviews