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The Rediff Interview/Vaiko

'Hats off to Atal Bihari Vajpayee for his commendable decision about the Pokhran tests'

Do you agree with the nuclear tests conducted by the BJP government?

Definitely. The country has done a very wise thing. I said the same thing when I participated in the debate at Pokhran. See, there is a definite threat and security challenge from China. In 1994, 95, 96, the standing committees of the defence ministry gave a very clear report and it was stated that our primary security challenge is China. Remember, these committees were represented by all the political parties. For example. Indrajit Gupta at one point was the chairman of the committee. China supplied both nuclear and missile technology to Pakistan.

Nobody could forget the betrayal of China in 1962 and Pandit Nehru was the most disappointed and frustrated man then. Now they have a nuclear arsenal. They have conducted 45 tests. We have got our own problems with Pakistan. So, it is the primary duty of the Government of India to go nuclear because China is a nuclear power and clandestinely Pakistan also has acquired nuclear power.

In the process, we became isolated in the world.

No. This is also the propaganda of the countries which are inimical to us. What has happened is we have won international reputation. Actually they didn't want anybody else to enter the nuclear club of five countries. They wanted to monopolise. What had happened in Manila? The Third World countries stood by us. The Anglo Saxon countries tried to bring a resolution to condemn India. But it was not supported by the Asian countries. So, they could not pass the resolution.

The UN Security Council passed a resolution without informing the country against which they were passing the resolution. We pointed that out at that time and the USA supported the resolution. But here in Manila, they did not support the resolution. We have gained or succeeded because the Third World countries stood by us. Because of the nuclear environment created by the nexus between China and Pakistan, India was forced to exercise this option. This is a definite deterrent to protect us. Hats off to Atal Bihari Vajpayee for his commendable decision about the Pokhran tests.

The BJP says we are a superpower now that we have conducted the nuclear tests but nobody accepts us as a superpower. Does it not mean that we have to do something else other than N-test to become a superpower?

It is not the like that. The so-called powers may not agree because they want to monopolise the world. Superpower is a factor, which has to be recognised by the other countries. Could they deny the fact that we are the second most populous country in the world? Could anyone ignore a country of 1 billion people? Is it imaginable?

It is also true that 35 per cent of our population is below the poverty line. So, don't you think our attention should have been there and not on nuclear tests?

In Soviet Russia, people are starving and dying without even getting potatoes. That is a superpower.

Former prime minister I K Gujral gave the example of Russia in his speech in the Lok Sabha. He cited the arms race as the reason behind the Soviet Union's disintegration and poverty.

Gujral is a very good bureaucrat. At times he is tutored to speak something. I don't give much reference to him.

So, you justify India's nuclear tests.

Not merely justifying it. I am applauding the government. I have defended the government on the floor of Parliament.

What about the sanctions? Whether you like it or not, sanctions have affected our economy.

Not at all. The United States wanted to push us to the brink, bringing down the value of the rupee to sixty, seventy, eighty rupees, like they have punished Pakistan to the brink. But that has not happened here. Even in the United States, the Congressmen say, do away with sanctions. Our farmers will suffer. The American citizen will suffer. This is the cry from even the Republicans.

Do you also applaud Yashwant Sinha's Budget?

Of course. When P Chidambaram presented the Budget, bouquets were given to him. But what happened finally? He received only brickbats. But here it is going to be vice versa. Brickbats were thrown at Sinha for his Budget. After three-four months, he will receive bouquets because it is going in the right direction.

Chief Minister M Karunanidhi's name has been removed from the suspect list of the ATR on the Jain Commission report, that too not immediately after it was tabled. Does that mean any realignment is going to take place in the Centre?

Nothing. Even in the discussion, it was pointed out by somebody that it was a mistake. So, they have taken this position and corrected the mistake. That's all. At the same time, the home ministry has clarified that Karunanidhi would be interrogated. I don't give any importance to this development. Only Karunanidhi's family paper is giving report importance to the news.

Karunanidhi's government was dismissed first for his alleged LTTE links. After the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi, he was defeated badly. Don't you feel he has been punished enough?

I don't want to make any comment on that. Some people are punished for the sins they have committed elsewhere. This is my answer.

Is there any chance of the MDMK and the DMK coming together to form a very strong front because you were with the DMK for such a long time?

Let me tell you one thing. I didn't come out of the DMK. I was expelled from the DMK in a very cruel manner, like it has never happened in any democratic political party anywhere in the world. They hatched a conspiracy theory that the LTTE was plotting to eliminate Karunanidhi to promote my own political interest. This story was planted by Maran and without giving any fair chance of explanation or trial, I was kicked out of the party.

Five devoted cadres of the DMK committed self-immolation and died. So, from the flames of self-immolation, our party was born. This is the background. Even today I am fighting only the family hegemony. I have all the love and affection for the party and the cadres but Karunanidhi's family has spread its tentacles to destroy the party and seize whatever they could from the party to enrich the family. The party has become their family property. So, there is no question of any realignment with Karunanidhi's family. The North Pole and South Pole will never meet and cannot meet.

Many political leaders, even though there are ideological differences between them, when they meet, are friendly and cordial to each other. How has it been with you and the DMK leaders?

See, I am a man of political character. I cherish political niceties and culture. So, respecting such political culture, I behave in a civilised manner.

The Vaiko Interview, continues