'AI Is Going To Ruin Lives'

'The value of a human being is being lost. That's my biggest worry.'

French filmmaker Michel Gondry was late in using a smartphone. By his own admission, the Oscar winner (Best Original Screenplay trophy that he shared with Charlie Kaufman for Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind) felt that his fingers were too thick to type text messages.

But when he got a smartphone, Gondry realised it was a wonderful way for him to communicate with his nine-year-old daughter Maya, who lives in France.

Gondry would often have to travel for work and he suddenly came up with an idea to make animated stories, using 12 photographs (or cutouts of colourful papers) a second and moving them to create short films that Maya would enjoy.

They devised a plan.

Maya would come up with random titles that her young mind would think of and Gondry would make the films.

Finally, the project was stitched together to make an hour-long animation film called Maya, Give Me a Title. The delightful film premiered at the Berlin International Film Festival in the Generations section and won the Crystal Bear for Best Film.

The stories and the titles include Maya watching an earthquake and making a plane.

In one story, Maya's mother shrinks cucumbers to make gherkins.

She accidentally drops the bottle of Concochon, the mixture to shrink cucumbers into a tub where Maya is having a bath. And voila, Maya shrinks also.

Aseem Chhabra talked to Michel Gondry and Maya about the making of the film and how it kept the father and daughter close even though they were living on different continents.

Michel, can you talk about your love of stop motion animation? You have used it before but why do you particularly like this animation form?

Michel: I think when you see a drawing, it is just a drawing.

If you want to make it move, you have to make it move with your hands.

But when you animate it, you take a picture and take another picture, and it moves on its own. So it's like magic.

It's like you have a system that makes you see another dimension, and it's really exciting.

You think in this time of hyper technology, you wanted to have a take on the most basic elements of creativity?

Michel: Well, yes, sure, but as not a statement. You can be as creative with the computer. It's just when the machine does too much, it limits your creativity.

But I want to insist that it's not the goal.

The goal is to have complete freedom.

If I use a machine, I have to comply with the guy who wrote the programme. And it makes me very angry sometimes because there are shortcuts.

Things that are automatic are made for people who are a bit lazy. So I pay the price for these people.

I don't even try because what I like in animation is to go to the store and buy all colours of paper I can find, and then take pictures.

I don't want to be nostalgic and say, things were so much better before. I use computers to do complex projects sometimes but it has to be different than typical animation.

You were at the Berlinale 12 years ago with another animation film, Is the Man Who Is Tall Happy, the film you made about Noam Chomsky.
What you did there was also kind of a dialogue between you and Chomsky, as this is a dialogue between you and Maya.
Is there any link between Maya and Chomsky?

Michel: There's a link because the first film talked about acquiring speech and language. Maya learned three languages at once, English, Swedish and French, and all went to her brain. So I thought of Chomsky while working on this film.

Maya, how was this journey been for you with your stories, including my favourite The Three Burglar Cats?

Maya: I had no idea how it was going to work. I was in France and now I am in Germany. But yes, I am very happy.

Did you like when your father shrunk you in the tub? What did you think of that?

Maya: Well, usually, the stories have a good ending.

So actually, it was okay because I wouldn't have liked to be small all my life. Just a few centimeters in height.

Michel, has Maya seen the Hollywood film Honey, I Shrunk The Kids?

Michel: No, I don't think so. (Turning to Maya and speaking in French) You should watch it with me.

Michel, how do you see each other's generation?

Michel: I don't wear a crop top.

Maya: I also don't wear crop tops.

Michel: Sorry, that is not a fair answer. I think because it's handmade work I do, it's interactive with humans and not a machine. It's me doing it, mostly, although Maya would find me the titles. So it was very close to what I would do when I was a kid. And for you, Maya?

Maya: Well now, we all have phones. When you were small, automatic cars didn't exist...

Michel: You had a string in between the thing and the car.

Maya: No, I mean now you have completely electrical cars, and a lot of people use them.

How were you, Michel, at Maya's age? When did you start getting curious about making things happen and explore?

Michel: We are very different. My eye is more about story, communication, social. Maya is the opposite.

I have a son and he is completely different. I really appreciate how genetics work. Paul is less focused. He is very creative, and Maya is too. But Maya is learning the strings. I don't think Paul would have the patience.

Maya: Well, sometimes, I don't have the patience.

Michel: But when you are motivated, it's good. You should see how hard she works. She's very, very good at school.

My son was different. My son was very good at psychology to get the answer from the teacher without having to work hard. He's very street smart.

But Michel, do you remember the time you realised that stories were so important for you as a means of understanding the world and expressing yourself?

Michel: Initially, I was more about discovery, invention and trying things. For instance, when I was Maya's age, or even younger, my favourite drinks were orange juice and milk. And I said, 'Okay, if I mix them, I will make the best drink.'

Maya: Oh, that is gross.

Michel: I think that is where my some of my qualities comes from. I did try it and it was gross. Later, I started to tell more and more stories.

Maya, in this film, did you feel at some point you were your dad's boss?

Maya: It must have been hard for him to come up with stories when I gave him the titles. For example, Maya in the Sea with a Bottle of Ketchup. He would have to make good value in the titles.

Did you think a lot about the titles or they just come out of your mind?

Maya: I think they would just come out of my mind.

Michel: But if I can add something, you would think there is a limitation in creativity. Limitation of freedom. But no.

I will never think, 'Oh, she takes a boat and she transports the ketchup bottles. And the ketchup is very powerful.'

I will never dare to do a story like that but because it's in the title, I said, 'Okay, I am fine. It's justified.'

Was it a way for you to tap into a child's imagination? It's like what you thought when you were a kid, but you lost that when you grew up?

Michel: In general, there is a bit of that in my work. For this reason, I don't have to think of who's going watch the film.

I mean, I know she's going to watch it but I do the animation exactly like I would make it for myself.

In this film, I tried to create her universe -- her, mom, grandpa, grandma and me sometimes.

If there is corner of the house, a detail that she would remember.

If she feels like making an airplane, I would use stuff from house so she can identify with them.

Michel, I am always so fascinated by how creative you are and how, as an artist, you are not boxed in. How does your mind work that you every project you do is so diverse, different, challenging and yet fun?

Michel: Each time I try and if I make mistakes, I try again.

Come on, that's not true.

Michel: But I go where I have opportunities and I get excited.

Are you concerned about artificial intelligence?

Michel: My main worry is that we are a little group of people who are lucky to do creative work, and we are all fighting to keep that in reality. The most endangered people are the workers because there will be in more control.

The value of a human being is being lost. That's my biggest worry.

It's going to ruin lives, but not creatively.

Maya, which of your dad's movies have you seen?

Maya: I have seen two: Be Kind, Rewind and The Book of Solutions.

What about Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind?

Maya I haven't seen it yet.

Michel, are you still in touch with Kate Winslet and Jim Carrey?

Michel: Mostly Jim Carrey, yeah. We are not great friends, but we call each other, and he painted my portrait.

Maya, do your friends know that you are at the Berlin Film Festival and you have been involved in this major film?

Maya No. I came here at the beginning of the vacation, so nobody asked me.

So they haven't seen the film?

Maya: Oh my friends have seen the film because I invited them to see it. But I don't think they know I am at the Berlin festival.

Michel: She doesn't brag.