When the International Labour Organisation appointed Assane Diop as executive director to kick off its social protection initiative in 2000, it couldn't have found a man with better credentials for the job.

Diop, one of Africa's well-known trade unionists, served as labour minister for three years in his native Senegal and, more importantly, was twice minister of health. Diop, who was in New Delhi recently for an Asia-Pacific meeting on socially inclusive strategies, tells Business Standard that these initiatives make for good economics as these are vital investments in a country's human resources.

Is inclusive healthcare an important part of social security coverage?

Every year, around 150 million people slip into poverty because of out-of-pocket medical expenses. In most developing countries, healthcare is available only to formal sector workers. Governments say they provide universal healthcare but for me it is not universal if people have to pay for basic healthcare.

Have governments understood the importance of universal healthcare?

Governments consider health (and education) as a non-productive investment. Health must be considered a basic human right. It makes economic sense anyway. Slowly, government mindsets are changing.

How good is social security in this part of the world?

In Asia, more than one billion workers, that is over 60 per cent of the workforce, are vulnerable because they do not have any protection in times of hardship, illness and disability. In South Asia, in particular, the problem is acute and three out of every four workers are classified as vulnerable.

How do you view India's efforts to extend social security?

I believe the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme is a path-breaking initiative. Equally important is the Unorganised Sector Workers' Social Security Bill. But there are other aspects to social security and India also needs to learn from other countries. China, Sri Lanka, Thailand and South Korea have made remarkable progress while pursuing different models.

What is the single most important problem in labour relations?

Lack of transparency. Employers are not willing to be transparent in good times. Only when the company is not doing well do they share information and expect the workers to respond to the crisis.

Is China a role model?

Well, the system in China is very different. Let me make one thing clear: There is the ILO point of view and an African view. In Africa, we are very interested in Indian experience and strategies. Because of the immense diversity and the numbers, whatever succeeds here holds more lessons for the rest of the world.

What would you recommend as a priority?

Invest in your country's human resources. In Senegal, we spend as much as 40 per cent of our budget on education and about 10.5 per cent on health. But, of course, it all depends on the level of each country's development. In Senegal, our top priority is to get a skilled workforce and since our level of literacy is only around 70 per cent; we need to spend more on education.

Can developing countries afford extensive social security?

The question is whether countries, whatever their stage of development, can afford not to provide social security. Look at the widespread disruption caused by the steep hike in food prices. A proper social security system is a powerful tool for providing people with a sense of security and inclusion. I think India understands that.

As a committed trade unionist, does the decline of the labour movement worry you?

What is important is to build a strong social dialogue between employers and workers. This is doable if workers don't ask for the impossible and employers don't reject the possible. At the end of the day, both sides have to understand that the enterprise belongs to everyone.