The Geeta Mukherjee Chat
Geeta Mukherjee, the veteran CPI MP, has been in the forefront of the campaign on the Women's Bill. In an eloquent appearance on the Rediff Chat on Tuesday night, a few hours after the government withdrew the bill from Parliament, she provided enough riposte to the naysayers on the legislation.
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 7:58 IST)
Hello, everyone. I am here to answer your questions. Kindly begin.
Sarin (Tue Jul 14 1998 7:48 IST)
Dear Mrs Mukherjee: What do you really think is the reason behind this stern opposition against the women's reservation bill in Parliament?
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 7:59 IST)
Sarin: I think the real motive for this stiff opposition is the fear of men MPs that their seats would be reserved. All the other things which are being brought in are such which on examination will not hold water.
Sapna (Tue Jul 14 1998 7:48 IST)
Ms Mukherjee: Do you think the percentage should be bought down to 15 per cent since it is too early for the government to press for 33 per cent at this juncture??
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:4 IST)
Sapna: As far as I am concerned I do not think it should be brought down to 15 per cent. The reason being our experience of panchayat elections. As you know the Panchayat is the lowest rung in our administrative structure. If all panchayat elections were held, then ten lakh women are to be elected to the panchayats because there is one third seats for women. Excepting the state of Bihar, everywhere elections to the panchayats have taken place. And what we find is that these ladies who have been elected to the panchayats are mostly doing better work than their male colleagues. This has been recorded by many official and non-official services and, of course, our personal experiences. If that be so, why there cannot be 33 per cent in the legislative assemblies and Lok Sabha? If you calculate the number of women who would be elected if this 33 per cent reservation is given, at the most there will be 1,000 to 1,100 altogether. So don't we have in our vast country 1,000 women who can come to Parliament and the legislative assemblies?
Manisha (Tue Jul 14 1998 7:50 IST)
Ms Geeta: Do you think the any government will ever pass this bill?
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:8 IST)
Manisha: It is a million dollar question now because in my utter frustration I am hearing that even such parties who never questioned 33 per cent are now thinking of agreeing to 15 to 18 per cent. For example, though it has not yet been spelt out by the Congress, the way they have backtracked by raising the question of OBCs -- which they never brought earlier -- seems to me ominous. If that be so, then it will be difficult to pass the bill, because with the BJP, Congress and the Left together it would have been very easy to pass the bill. Some other MPs belonging to RJD and TMC also had assured that they would support the original bill. Therefore, a two third majority was almost guaranteed.
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:9 IST)
Manisha: But the developments of the last two days were such that the bills could not be passed.
Amit (Tue Jul 14 1998 7:51 IST)
Ms Mukherjee: I fully agree with Mr Sharad Yadav's statement that all the bal kati women will enter Parliament. And not really backward class women
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:13 IST)
Amit: I do not know on what basis you fully agree. But our experience is different. For example, if this one third reservation is passed, in many states there are seats which are OBC-dominated. In those states, naturally all the parties will try to put OBC women candidates. So where are the bal katis in these states? And moreover, Parliament as it stands now is mostly men. In our Lok Sabha women's percentage this time is less than 7 per cent. In that case, all the men who have been elected -- were they all from the upper classes? Secondly, all that is said about women, do the men come around with a towel around them? Therefore, why this fear about women?
Anil (Tue Jul 14 1998 7:57 IST)
Ms Mukherjee: How come the BJP and your party is united on this bill? Isn't it true that you are opposing the BJP on all the other issues???
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:14 IST)
Anil: Of course we are opposing the BJP on communal and many other issues. That does not mean that we should backtrack on the issues on which we were the staunchest supporters because BJP also supports it. Now the BJP is supporting our cause and it will be our victory.
Sapna (Tue Jul 14 1998 7:59 IST)
Ms Mukherjee: Recently a Maharashtra-based NGO brought out papers stating that women representatives are inefficent compared to their male counterparts. Can you comment?
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:19 IST)
Sapna: I do not know which Maharashtra NGO has come out with such a statement. But the experience of panchayats in Maharashtra is not that. As a member of a committee of empowerment of women, I have been to Maharashtra. Particularly to examine some panchayats. Among them was Banskantha panchayat. We met the women who told us that even one-and-a-half years back they were under large big veils covering their faces. But then they said you are seeing us now and do you see any veils? Many voters -- both men and women --also had come there and some NGOs. We asked them how the women panchayats are working. All of them were full of praise and the voters themselves gave the account how good the women panchayats are functioning. So if this can happen at the panchayat level, then in a state like Maharashtra which is socially much advanced, why should there be any failure?
Amit (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:2 IST)
Ms Mukherjee: Will you agree to the fact that the reservation of seats for women should be decided by members of Parliament and not the Election Commission?
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:21 IST)
Amit: As far as the decision about which seats should be reserved, our joint select committee left it to the government and said the government in consultation with various parties will select the modalities. Of course, then they can consult the Election Commission as well.
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:22 IST)
Amit: And in any case, the decision by Parliament members individually or collectively will become very difficult because that will need a lot of study and examination. So in any case, it could be done through direct consultation with all political parties.
sainarasimhan (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:5 IST)
Geetaji: Is there REALLY a need for RESERVATION? Couldn't this be accomplished by other means? Like adult education, and spreading the message through political parties? I am a firm believer that reservation can only go so far. After all, reservation for SCs etc since Independence has NOT brought them as much in terms of economic independence as it was initially thought it would. Also witness the failure of the 'reservations' policy in the US (known locally as affirmative action). Comments?
sainarasimhan (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:8 IST)
Geetaji: Please don't misconstrue my comments as that of a MCP. I am NOT against women. I believe strongly in the empowerment of women.
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:29 IST)
sainarasimhan: Firstly, the National Federation of Indian Women -- I am a member of that -- was opposed to reservations in the 1970s. We had expected that by and by our numbers will increase. But through hard realities we found that our numbers are decreasing. In fact, our number never crossed 10 per cent. So that is why we have been forced to conclude that reservation is necessary for some years so that more women can enter these decision-making bodies. As far as education etc are concerned, that has to be there. Are we in a position that we cannot have 1,,100 women in Parliament? I was a member of the SC/ST Welfare Committee in Parliament some six years back. Wherever I went I used to ask whether there is any backlog of fourth grade employees. And I was sorry to see that in the fourth grade employees, there was a big backlog. Am I to believe after so many years of Independence there were not enough SC/ST people to be recruited who could have the requisite qualifications? Secondly, land reform is a must for development. In West Bengal, land reform has been a big thing. I do not know the experience of reservations in the US. But our experience in India in panchayats was very effective.
Ilawarsi (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:17 IST)
Geetaji, please accept my condolences over the death of the Eightyfourth Amendment Bill -- I use the word 'death' because after today's turnabout by the Congress party, I do not see the bill in its present form being introduced. Do you?
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:33 IST)
Illawarsi: The latest position taken by the Congress party is ominous. I was called a congenital optimist by my own leaders. Really I was very optimistic till yesterday. But what I saw and heard today has really amazed me. I am sorry in politics today, most of the people are speaking one thing and doing another. Double standards. And this is one thing which is a real danger to parliamentary democracy. Most of the parties included reservation for women in their election manifestoes for getting votes. This practice has to be stopped.
Nitin (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:21 IST)
Ms Mukherjee: Indira Gandhi was the prime minister of our country for nearly two decades. What good things did she do for the women of our country? I don't understand how this women's bill will help.
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:36 IST)
Nitin: Whatever was done by Indira Gandhi, I am not here to comment. But Rajiv Gandhi did a good thing. It was Rajiv who proposed this one third reservation for women in panchayats. But the fact remains that why did Congress-ruled states take a long time to implement this? Left-ruled states not only got this bills endorsed in the assemblies but went in for panchayat elections.
Sapna (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:23 IST)
Ms Mukherjee: I am very much against that lady Shabana Azmi. She is a hypocrite. If the slums are demolished she is with slumdwellers. Next day, she is present at all the socialite evenings. I don't understand why we need these kind of women for our country.
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:38 IST)
Sapna: I know Shabana and what is wrong if she works among the slum dwellers in the morning and go for parties in the evening?
Ilawarsi (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:32 IST)
Geetaji, one thing I don't understand is the logic or illogic of numbers... How can we settle for just 33 pc reservation for a minority that is around 50 pc of the population? Is there some story behind how this 33 pc figure was reached? Can you elaborate on it please..?
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:40 IST)
Ilawarsi: Though we are nearly 50 per cent of the population, we did not want 50 per cent reservation because 33 per cent itself has caused such a flutter. As far as I understand, the 33 per cent came from the panchayat experience. I read an international survey where it said that the 33 per cent can be optimum.
Amit (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:39 IST)
Ms Mukherjee: If women get jobs where will men go? Don't you think men should get jobs first compared to women, otherwise they turn into anti-social elements?
Amit (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:33 IST)
Ms Mukherjee: Don't you think women MPs won't be able to do their job properly compared to their male counterparts as they have to look after their family, children et al.
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:43 IST)
Amit: This is a totally wrong approach. Let me tell you my personal experience. Before becoming an MP, I was in the West Bengal legislative assembly. At that time, I used to cook, I used to bring water from a distance, serve my constituency so well that I have a huge difference with other political contestants. Thus it is a myth that those who have a family cannot do justice to politics.
Manoj (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:35 IST)
Ms Mukherjee: Why did your party not pass the women's bill during UF rule. There is no point in rueing after BAZZI HAATH SE NIKAL GAYI...
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:48 IST)
Manoj: In the UF, we were not the only party. But the Left parties were absolutely consistent that time and also now. But our vote alone cannot make the bill pass. That is why we are still at it and we have not given up the battle. Parties like the Congress have given up the battle.
jeans (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:43 IST)
When you people feel the Congress is taking double standards, why do you want to support the Congress with the only aim of keeping the BJP out of power?
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:52 IST)
jeans: As far as BJP is concerned, we have always fought for secularism and not only in name but also in actual action. Once again, I shall give my personal example. After the Babri Masjid demolition there was a riot in Calcutta. During those days, we were in the field, wherever Muslims and Hindus were there, bringing the police. Our secularism is not community based. Therefore, we do not want the BJP's Hindu Rashtra business. Keeping the BJP out of power is not in hands alone. As far as the Congress is concerned, they claim themselves to be secular. So if the Congress is ready to form a government, we are ready to give issue-based support.
Rajeev (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:49 IST)
Ms Mukherjee: Everybody knows that India is not a safe place for women to venture out at night time. So when a woman can't step out of her house during night time. how will she come out to protect others?
Geeta Mukherjee (Tue Jul 14 1998 8:54 IST)
Rajeev: Coming out at night time, may I ask, how many women in the USA can come out at night? So dear friend, women in Bombay, Calcutta and across the country do come out open at night if they want. So please do not think women are very very inferior to men.
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